Kintsugi plays Crusader Kings Two

Discussion in 'Fan Town' started by Glassware, Dec 30, 2015.

?

Which character should we start as?

Poll closed Jan 2, 2016.
  1. Haesteinn of Nantes

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. King Gartzia of Navarra

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. High Chief Pergrubrius of Yarvingla

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Jarl Rurik of Holmgardr

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  5. Serene Doge Orso of Venice

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  6. Duke Ashot IV of Armenia

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Chief Flann Sinna of Cill Dara

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Sultan Yahya II of the Idrisid dynasty

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Kutan Idiqut of Qocho

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  10. Emir Sawdanid of Bawi

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Glassware

    Glassware Well-Known Member

    With me, your host, Glassware!

    Crusader Kings 2 is a grand strategy game from Paradox Interactive. The central conceit: you assume control over an individual, not a nation, who is in control of one or more provinces. This province doesn't have to be independent, meaning that the majority of playable characters aren't actually independent nations but vassals of a greater power. The game runs on a dynastic system, encouraging the player to act towards the benefit of the dynasty rather than the individual nation in order to maintain power. This leads to a whole bunch of unusual incentives which make for fascinating gameplay. But for me, the most impressive part has been the way that AI rulers following their own directives alter history. So we're going to try for a full historical playthrough rather than focusing on a single dynasty.

    How I'm going to play this: I'll present a poll of initial choices, some of the more interesting ones in the 867 start. I'll play as that character through their life, providing neat screenshots and following a general objective. Then, when that character inevitably dies, I'll give an overview of the state of the world and a new set of character options (including the current character's heir, if they have one). Sound fun?

    Here's what I've got for options:

    King Gartzia of Navarra:
    [​IMG]

    Navarra is a small kingdom at the best of times, but at the moment it's doing even worse. The Umayyad advance has stalled for the most part against the bulwark of the Kingdom of Asturias, Gartzia's larger western neighbor, but while he can rely on nearby Christian kingdoms to come to his defense in the event of invasion Gartzia can't hope to carve out any of the Umayyad's territory for his own; he hasn't the allies to muster a push into their territory and the Umayyads can easily outnumber him fifteen to one. If Navarre is to survive or expand, it will need to forge alliances with the Karlings, the descendants of Charlemagne who in this time period have a stranglehold on Western Europe, but his father Inigo earned his throne on the merits of resisting both Carolingian and Muslim influences... Expect a lot of politicking. Also, Basques are the only culture in the game which can switch to a gender-equal inheritance law without converting to a heresy of one form or another, so that's nice.

    High Chief Pergrubrius of Yarvingla:
    [​IMG]
    A relatively young Lithuanian tribal chief, he's just barely the strongest of the local Lithuanian powers. He's safe from the advance of Catholicism for some time yet, and has the potential to unite the local tribes to resist Viking and Slavic assaults. Additionally, as a Lithuanian pagan, he can (if he controls the right territory) reform his faith into a powerful Romuva church taking tips from the Catholics which can hold out against the other local powers and keep up with the eventual advance of feudalism. The formation of the Kingdom of Lithuania will be my main goal with him.

    Jarl Rurik of Holmgardr:
    [​IMG]
    Rurik is a Norseman who's carved off a respectable slice of territory in the Rus. Historically he'd go on to found the Rurikid dynasty, which would rule a massive chunk of Russia until around the 17th century. A significant fraction of European nobility claims male-line descent from him. Rurik has huge coffers, which he needs in order to support his large army, but his people follow gods that are strange to him, even his son does, and he has little ability to convert them-it's likely that the Norse faith will have a weak grip on the Rus at best once he passes. The name of the game for Rurik is simple: conquer, conquer, conquer. Rurik has no shortage of nearby targets for war and raiding. The challenge will be making sure that it doesn't all fall apart when he dies...

    Serene Doge Orso of Venice:
    [​IMG]
    Venice, like most Italian Republics, is run by a coalition of merchant families who've banded together to elect one of them as representative of their interests. Orso's dynastic lineage is secure, with five healthy sons, and it's likely that his eldest will succeed him as Doge, provided that the other families don't stage an upset. Establishing power and influence in the Mediterranean is Orso's goal in the face of feudal nobles who look down on jumped up merchants, but he might not have the time-Venetian succession encourages the election of older rulers, and Orso's already ancient for a man of his time. His son may have to follow up.

    Duke Ashot IV of Armenia:
    [​IMG]
    Ashot is a Miaphysite Christian, one of the Eastern Christian faiths. He's titled as IV here, his ancestors having served as princes of Armenia in the past, but he'll historically be remembered as Ashot the Great, King of Armenia, founder of the kingdom which bore that name in the medieval era. He's trapped in between the Byzantines and the Abbasid Caliphate, and will have to contend with various Christian and Muslim regional powers if he wants to form the kingdom. He will have to carefully navigate regional politics and treat with both the Caliph and the Byzantine Emperor to survive.

    Sultan Yahya II of the Idrisid dynasty:
    [​IMG]

    The founders of the historical Morrocan state, the Idrisids are followers of Shia Islam, and possibly the most powerful Shi'a rulers in the world during this time period, which unfortunately isn't saying much. Bordered to the north by the powerful Sunni Umayyads, the Idrisids best bet is to hope they can halt Spanish crossings at the strait of Gibraltar and build up their own power base, perhaps expanding or converting the West African powers to their south to gain tribal allies. If they can hold out, the direct descent from the Prophet which the Idrisids can claim may allow them to establish a Caliphate of their own in the name of the Shi'a faith...

    Kutan Idiqut of Qocho:
    [​IMG]
    The Idiqut dynasty descends from nomadic herders who settled and became feudal lords over the Buddhist population. Kutan's brother follows the Buddhist faith, and his son is a Nestorian christian, but he himself is a Manichean, following a Zoroastrian heresy. However, his sympathy for Buddhism and Christianity nullifies the negative opinion modifiers usually inflicted, so the family remains firmly loyal to one another. They'll need it-Qocho is bordered to the north by the Kirghiz nomads, who destroyed the Uyghur Khaganate from which Kutan claims ancestry and who are dangerously powerful militarily. However, the Silk Road flows through Qocho, bringing with it riches and trade with which the Idiqut may yet become a great power...

    Emir Sawdanid of Bawi:
    [​IMG]
    The Emirate of Bari is the single longest lasting Islamic state on the Italian penninsula. It lasted until 871 historically-you may note that this is just four years from the start date. This is because Louis II, who rules Italy, has decided that he's had enough of the Emirate. In theory, Louis II is the Roman Emperor, but in game he's just the King of Italy, and it's more than possible to beat him off with a little luck. The real problem are his fellow Carolingians, who as noted before still rule most of Western Europe and will happily provide him troops to fight a little Muslim blemish. Still, if Bari can survive that initial attack it has many options and it's weaker neighbors are little threat. An enduring Muslim presence on the penninsula is more than possible, and the work of a few years could put Sawdan within spitting distance of Rome.

    Haesteinn of Nantes:
    [​IMG]
    Haesteinn is a legendary Viking, famous for his raids in and around the Mediterranean, famously ravaging many Spanish and Italian cities. He would play with regional politics to ally himself against the Franks and ravage England, but he's powerful enough that I think he could make a play for the Kingdom of Brittany and hold out against the Franks indefinitely. Or he could go semi-nomadic-he's got the prestige for a prepared invasion of anywhere on the map which borders the sea, where he could establish a viking state of his own, preferably not next door to the giant Catholic power. Haesteinn is the go-to character for when players want to pull of weird ahistorical stunts, presumably because in life he was exactly as ridiculous, so I'm open to suggestions if we go with him.

    Chief Flann Sinna of Cill Dara:
    [​IMG]

    Flann Sinna's father was high king of all Ireland, and historically he himself would come to bear that title. But the scattered Irish tribes are easy pickings for Vikings, and to the east the Great Heathen Army is rampaging about the British Isles. If he manages to unite the tribes, then he and Scotland may well have a Viking England to contend with, or worse. On the bright side, nobody in this time period really cares about Ireland, and his demesne is landlocked, meaning that the Vikings aren't going to be as much of a problem for him as they are most of his neighbors. The fact that nobody cares about Ireland also means that when I convert to a heresy and start conquering the neighbors it'll be a while before anyone notices anything's wrong.
     
  2. Glassware

    Glassware Well-Known Member

    Hm, nobody voted for the same thing.

    Well, of the ones that have been voted for my personal favorite is Kutan, so I'll spin up a game with him tonight and play. At age 40 there's a decent chance he'll keel over at any given point so the timeline's unlikely to advance much, but things can change a lot in CK2 in a few years, so there might be some interesting new choices by the time Kutan's dead.
     
    • Like x 2
  3. blue

    blue hightown funk you up

    Aha, I win. :D
     
  4. Glassware

    Glassware Well-Known Member

    Just under two decades of play. More than I was expecting, but Kutan was a pretty resilient fellow. He needed it.
    A tale told in multiple parts:
    [​IMG]
    Qocho in this start is the largest feudal power in the area. The Idiqut (according to wikipedia actually a term for leaders of the kingdom meaning "great wealth" rather than just a dynastic name) hold sway over all but a few independent feudal states. They're matched in the north by the Kirghiz, nomadic tribesmen who destroyed the Uyghur Khaganate in alliance with the Tang Chinese. The Uyghurs fled southwards to Qocho, establishing the Idiqut state, which would remain, outlasting religious strife and every other feudal state in the area until they were finally destroyed by one of the Mongol successor states in the late 14th century.

    [​IMG]
    Here we have Kutan. His father Hu, was one of the last Uyghur khagans, forced to commit suicide in 839, with the title becoming defunct six years later. The surviving Uyghur fled south and east, though we can't see the ones who fled to China on the map. Kutan's heritage is represented by his claim on the Kirghiz Kingdom, an area of territory roughly equivalent to the Uyghur's historical claims. Kutan has moderate to decent stats, most approaching the average of eight and thereby forgoing the various likely penalties. He's paranoid, as one would be given where he came from, cynical yet gregarious, and deeply, abidingly ambitious. He's got access to limited manpower from his vassals; his sympathy and understanding of Buddhism is all well and good, but he's still a foreign ruler from a foreign culture who they tolerate at the best of times.
    [​IMG]
    Here we have Khagan Bonek, Kutan's main geopolitical rival. Don't be fooled by his seemingly small troop sizes; nomads in Crusader Kings Two have the capability to produce vast numbers of hardened warriors by consuming their available manpower at short notice, and he can call upon the full might of both his vassal clans as well. Together, his forces significantly outnumber those of Qocho, but most of Qocho is furnished with fortifications and defenses which he can't easily break. The Kirghiz will take easier prey, at least long enough for Kutan to build up his strength.
    [​IMG]
    Bogu, the only other Uyghur ruler in the game, is right next door to Qocho, ruling a pair of provinces. His independence is an unfortunate problem.
    [​IMG]
    Kutan's son Arslan has converted to the local religion. Even less of a warrior than his father, but he's a skilled diplomat and a competent schemer. He's his father's only son and therefore his heir. With three living members of the dynasty, succession is fairly simple. This will change.
    [​IMG]
    Kutan's brother Borc, in a twist so weird it's probably at least partly historical, is a Nestorian Christian, the game's most underrepresented and yet supported faith, next to the Ibadi Muslims.
    [​IMG]
    The Silk Road will be Kutan's main advantage. His kingdom lies across it. Empires have been built on their ability to guarantee protection to those who travel the silk road, and Kutan's no different. His control of the silk road nets him a constant flow of money.
    [​IMG]
    First thing's first, though, better get some redundancy in this dynasty.
    [​IMG]
    Akgul is one of two Manichean women in the court. She's strong, a valuable hereditary trait, but most useful is her high stewardship skills-Kutan's average accounting abilities will not suffice on the Silk Road. What she isn't is from any well-known bloodline, meaning the marriage will be a blow to Kutan's prestige-the nobility value marriages among the elite, and a commoner marrying someone of Kutan's stature makes him a laughingstock. Kutan's personal and inherited prestige won't be enough to counter that for a while yet.
    [​IMG]
    Fortunately, Kutan's got few enough vassals that he doesn't have to care too much at this stage. His brother likes him, as do half the local Buddhist rulers they took over-more out of a desire to avoid conflict, it seems, than any real liking for him. The others aren't strong enough to fight Kutan.
    [​IMG]
    Kutan's focus, and the theme for the rest of his life, is obvious. Money is the key to thriving on the Silk Road.
    [​IMG]
    My fellow Uyghur duke is a decent fellow, but I think I could make better use of those lands than he does. We share a religion, which prevents me from using a religious pretext for war, but if I can show that, somewhere along the line, Kutan's ancestors also laid claim to that scrap of land, no one will bat an eye.
    [​IMG]
    It doesn't take long before the Kirghiz are embroiled in multiple wars, their forces stretched thin. I decide to add to the fun, and try to get some breathing room. I can't do much with empty nomadic lands, but it's more about preventing the Kirghiz from raiding deeper into my territory. I need a buffer.
    [​IMG]
    The Kirghiz outnumber Kutan's armies man for man, and their horsemen are more than a match in equal combat. I make use of Kutan's wealth to hire a small band of mercenaries, doubling the size of his army.
    [​IMG]
    It doesn't take long for the discontent vassals to seize the opportunity. Kutan's marriage to a commoner was probable a contributing factor here. The massive prestige malus dropped opinions across the realm, making them easy recruits for Yugaraje. But the mercenaries give Kutan a huge advantage in numbers that the rebels simply can't match.
    [​IMG]
    I'll get this event several times over the course of Kutan's life. The business focus is great! If bad for your morals...Kutan will continue to accumulate negative traits like this for some time.
    [​IMG]
    Kutan's dynasty expands nicely.
    [​IMG]
    My fellow Uyghur in Kumul is furious with me, but that's fine. Of course, my ability to actually use this casus belli is constrained by the problem that his armies actually outnumber mine due to his not having to rely on untrustworthy vassals and expensive mercenaries for the bulk of his forces. I'll hang onto the claim, though, you never know when an opportunity will come up.
    [​IMG]
    I crush the rebels in battle, but they retreat to their castles. Disloding them would take years, all while the Kirghiz ravage my own lands and use the fruits of their pillaging to build their strength. But Kutan's a merciful ruler, and he'll forgive Yugaraje. He won't even be imprisoned for taking up arms. His gratitude from this firm yet merciful reminder should keep him or anyone else from trying something similar any time soon.
    [​IMG]
    The newest member of the family is actually Kutan's grandson, Sugr. Sugr's born a dwarf, an unfortunate but manageable condition. The major negatives are to fighting, and the times of Uyghur khans leading on the battlefields are long gone now.
     
  5. Glassware

    Glassware Well-Known Member

    Part two:

    [​IMG]
    Kutan's second son is born soon after his grandson. Kutan names him after his father, Hu, the Uyghur khan who was forced into suicide. Hu doesn't inherit his mother's strength, but he'll have the finest tutors and hopefully will grow into a strong second for Kutan's heir.
    [​IMG]
    With the rebels dealt with, Kutan is free to send his armies north into Kirghiz lands.
    The problem with fighting nomads is that their base camps, where their children and noncombatants live, are deep inside their territory, and their armies are inevitable better at moving than you are-if they choose not to engage then they can evade indefinitely. The steppe is vast and punishing to move through without support. The solution? Forts. Forts enable occupation of otherwise empty provinces and allow armies to move deeper into the steppe without suffering supply penalties. It's expensive, but Kutan is good for it.
    [​IMG]
    In march, Kutan's spymaster is murdered.
    [​IMG]
    By Arslan's wife.

    Clearly, she was up to something and didn't want Kutan finding out. Considering her position, it probably involves the family. I decide to think sideways and appoint Arslan as the replacement spymaster. If she kills him, then she loses out on the inheritance to Hu, and her son Sugr is locked out of the succession. The only question is if Arslan is also in on it, in which case I've pretty much just handed her a blank check.
    [​IMG]
    It turns out, thankfully, that he's not. Arslan's wife is plotting to kill Kutan's wife Akgul, presumably because she doesn't want any more challengers to Arslan's eventual inheritance. Family politics in CK2 can get vicious. I imagine after Akgul she would have targeted Hu as well.
    (In the time it took for Arslan to uncover this plot, Kutan won against the Kirghiz by sacking one of their base camps and taking the Khagan's family hostage)
    [​IMG]
    Boncek is persuaded to cease her plotting when confronted about her scheme. Kutan again lets her be, unwilling to anger other family members by imprisoning her. The family may be a nest of vipers, but it's a family, damn it.
    [​IMG]
    Kutan tries to ease his doubts with more land. Three independent buddhist lords rule the lands to the southwest, the gatekeepers for this area of the silk road. But to the west are the Samanids. They're led by a child, for now, but they will doubtless expand in the future, and it's not long before one of their vassals declares war for Kashgar in order to further the expansion of the umma. Kutan, rather than come to their aid, declares war on all three.
    [​IMG]
    Kutan is too late for Kashgar, but Bharuka is easily claimed as his own. Khotan, however, holds out, and his superior forces press into Kutan's own lands.
    [​IMG]
    Kutan's brother's wife is plotting to kill him, incidentally. Oy, this family.
    [​IMG]
    The war with Khotan takes a turn for the better when Kutan's mercenaries capture Shah Vikarma. At swordpoint, he capitulates utterly. But Kutan's already looking elsewhere; his fellow Uyghur leader Bogu has also tried to claim the vast lands of the plains and been punished severely by the Kirghiz, destroying huge portions of his levies. Kutan's declaration of war for his rightly (faked) claim to Bogu's land is out within days of Bogu's surrender to the Kirghiz.
    [​IMG]
    Sugr's education, Kutan decides, should be focused not on war. His chief diplomat, Kuntuvdi, who forged the documents which he used to press his current war, is charged with Sugr's education. The boy will be a masterful diplomat.
    [​IMG]
    Kutan gains Content, nullifying his Ambitious trait. Note the massive drop in his stats across the board and how he now has a whopping zero diplomacy.
    [​IMG]
    Kutan and his wife are both forced into hiding by threats to their lives. Given the spymaster's inability to find the plotters, I personally suspect his involvement with the plots. Perhaps he's looking to inherit before any more siblings show up. This show of fear on Kutan's part is uninspiring to his vassals.
    [​IMG]
    Kutan's brother Borc presents his demands: he wants the succession laws changed so he will inherit Qocho instead of Arslan. Kutan is in no mood to fight family, and in fact is rapidly growing tired of fighting altogether. He capitulates to Borc's demand without complaint.
    [​IMG]
    Arslan is upset at the loss of his inheritance. Kutan mollifies him by finally granting him a fief of his own. He promptly selects the intrigue focus and starts framing the vassals for various crimes. I get the feeling that Borc won't be enjoying his new status as heir for very long...
    [​IMG]
    One of Kutan's vassals decides to request permission to fight a duel with his son. This is a remarkably transparent attempt at murder. Kutan banishes him, which mostly just means he's not hanging around court any more.
    [​IMG]
    Somehow, Borc manages to die a natural death before Arslan's assassins can catch up to him. Arslan now stands to inherit the entirety of Qocho, and more besides.
    [​IMG]
    Kutan declares the kingdom of the Six Cities, having expanded Qocho's reach and wealth far beyond its historical height. Arslan's inheritance grows more by the day.
    [​IMG]
    On a trading expedition Kutan befriends the Cuman khagan. Wealth and the pursuit of trade reach across religious boundaries.
    [​IMG]
    Meanwhile, the seven year old Caliph is having a long series of bad days and rebellions when suddenly he also experiences a Shi'a uprising. The Abbasids are rapidly falling. This may not affect the encroaching Samanids, but it's good news nonetheless.

    Next: Kutan's Folly!
     
  6. Glassware

    Glassware Well-Known Member

    Kutan has a great and terrible idea.

    [​IMG]
    The business focus, everyone. The "final exam" for this focus is a series of extraordinarily expensive projects and Kutan managed to pick the most expensive one. Really, the pictures tell the story best without narration:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Kutan's legacy is basically of being a really great king who lost his mind in his later years and went bankrupt trying to build a big tower. The resulting surge in crime and banditry is largely his fault.
    His time in hiding also wasn't good to him. He spent almost a decade in hiding waiting for his spymaster to root out the threats against his life, but the isolation and paranoia got to him.
    [​IMG]
    :(

    Next: Choices for next time!
     
  7. Glassware

    Glassware Well-Known Member

    The world hasn't changed much in eighteen years. The Karlings still rule western Europe, the Vikings are still raiding. The major difference in geopolitics is the collapse of the Abbasids:
    [​IMG]
    Caliph Ramadan is fighting five wars at once and losing each one. The poor kid will be lucky to survive. His story will be a desperate once, but if he can thrive it will be interesting, no doubt.
    [​IMG]
    Haesteinn conquered half of Brittany before the Karlings forced him out. He retreated to Devon, which he conquered, but his ability to replenish his losses has vanished and he rules over a catholic population which despises him. He at least has a new ambition now-he wants to become king of Wales. What with all the vikings conquering Britain, he might have a shot.
    [​IMG]
    Sawdan has somehow managed to survive, but he lost Bari to the King of Italy, as expected. He appears to have spend the last two decades building a war chest to make another go at it, which is less expected. His ridiculously high stewardship skill is probably what's allowed him to do this.
    [​IMG]
    The king of Asturias is resolute in the face of the Umayyad advance. He's probably going to get wiped off the Iberian penninsular in his lifetime, but it won't be without a fight.
    [​IMG]
    Gartzia was murdered by his much younger than him wife six years in. She's not a playable character, sadly.
    [​IMG]
    The child-queen of Great Moravia is fighting desperately against pagan attacks. She looks to be a lot of fun to play.
    [​IMG]
    Once of the Karling vassals, Duke Guillaume. Playing a vassal is all about the long game, in Guillaume's case the diplomacy game. Guillaume may also be able to take advantage of the inevitable Ummayad internal schism to gain more land for himself, who knows?
    [​IMG]
    One of Kutan's vassals, Canca isn't well suited to expansion but to internal politics. She might just accomplish something extraordinary, with time, and carve out her own place on the silk road through intrigue instead of the sword. There will be lots of kidnapping and assassination.
    [​IMG]
    While we're talking about eastern religions, how about Kallar, a Hindu Satrap bordering expansionist Islamic states? Kallar's a very successful schemer, but he'll need it if he's to survives the Samanids and Saffarids, much less his fellow Hindu neighbors.
    [​IMG]
    Riacan is just here because of what a massive dick he is. Seriously. His dad was chief of Osriage, right? So he's the second in line for the position. His brother takes it before he does, which understandably upsets him. So he starts killing his brother's children. His brother is understandably displeased by this, and banishes him, but Riacan came back with a two thousand man army and pressed his claim by force. He wants to become king of Ireland, which is totally possible given the mutual threat of Vikings having conquered half the isle. But if he succeeds it'll be in spite of how much everyone hates him because he's just an awful person.

    So, it looks like I can't change the poll options, sadly, so you'll need to post in the thread your preference for our next character. Anyone landed is possible, preferably someone I've posted about. Or we could go with Arslan, if you like.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice