Niceness Conditioning

a thread for those of us who go nonverbal and/or are often nonverbal and who struggle with asserting ourselves to get others to accommodate us to talk about that problem and how to overcome it.

 

hmmm.
I'm AFAB, and I was very much female-socialized, so that could definitely be part of it.
when I'm overloaded, or nonverbal for whatever reason, though? asking people to accommodate me often makes the overload...worse. it just feels badwrong to ask for people to accommodate me, and I feel terrible when I do it, and it's much easier to just...deal with the struggles of being nonverbal. people learn to ignore me, or only ask yes-or-no questions. most of them just ignore me.
sometimes it's like...a choice, almost? like, talking would use up way too much energy, so I choose to not do that, but then sometimes I make myself use up that energy anyway, because otherwise people would just ignore me, and I try and make myself talk during those times because it's like...not like I literally have no other choice besides talking, even if it is the less good choice, and I'd feel bad making others accommodate me. but then there are other times where I just can't talk, and I just feel awful trying to make people accommodate me anyway.

 

I'm technically AFAB (born without a pee-hose, but also no functioning ovaries or uterus). Not really socialized at all, being raised in a forest and pretty much allowed to be whatever I wanted to be (wasn't expected to live long enough for it to matter), but being nice was stressed as important to everyone since parents were refugees from Rep of Ireland's Catholic majority and the problems it caused them, being Protestant, so they'd seen enough hate and anger to be done with it. A lot of my reticence comes from when I first started getting out into the world in my teens and finding most interactions with people were hostile. Plus my problems with being unable to control moods, it was safer to back off than to engage. If I am pushed I do get rather aggressive (which family finds amusing, since I'm seen as a "little girl") that turns into rather nasty anger if it isn't redirected (by someone else - I have no self control at that point).

 

I go nonverbal sometimes but much more often I'm only capable of making mouth-noises which aren't really words. Like. Communicating in animal screeches and shit like that. I don't know if this counts as nonverbal because I'm still making a noise to communicate, but it seems like it would be in the general ballpark. I can still process words other people say but I just can't make my mouth make the words unless I put a lot of Effort into it. I can still do it, it's just... work, when speaking doesn't usually take that much work. I think it's different because my nonverbalness has to do with anxiety and Trauma Junk, not autism?

I'm AFAB was definitely socialised female.

Luckily a lot of the time when I'm outside and this happens, my partner's around to translate from sad-deflated-sound to 'I am dissociating and overloaded and full of anxiety please get me home ASAP'. When I'm not, though, I just kind of... try to stay out of the way? I try to think of solutions to my problems which don't involve talking to other people, and try to avoid situations where I'd have to talk to them. It's not really a solution to the problem, it's just avoiding the problem, but it's how I manage it at least. Interested to perch in this thread and see if I can steal any solutions from you folks, like a magpie with shiny things.

And yeah @chaoticArbiter same hat, I feel so bad asking for accomodations for this stuff. :( Like one the time I did do it (because I couldn't talk to my psychologist at the time because I couldn't talk to anyone unless I trusted them a lot because my throat just wouldn't work) I felt so awful and guilty, especially when she'd try to get me to talk in later sessions and my throat was just so dry and stuffed-up and Not Working.

 

i... think i might go nonverbel sometimes? i didn't think i did for a long time but recently on here i've read descriptions of it that are more detailed than "can't talk" and im thinking that it might actually be A Thing i do.

sometimes it feels like my thoughts -> words -> thoughts translator is broken. i know i've vented about it on tumblr a few times over the years but i never drew the connection between that experience and nonverbalness? but like... when i'm stressed or overwhelmed or when there are too many things to process, concepts and images and thoughts-stuff don't turn into words unless i concentrate really hard. and then i have to make sense of the words, which is another step. and if i can do that what happens then is i get really really ramble-y and most of what comes out of my mouth is fairly useless. also my audio processing issues go through the roof when i'm stressed but even when i'm not i usually need to use subtitles for things because often when i'm watching a movie/tv show i will just like. forget? i'll totally forget that those mouth sounds are important and then i have to rewind because i missed everything. this happened in school a lot and was. not fun. i can't rewind real life.

im afab and was socialized female, but socialized female by two gender nonconforming lesbians. so... i dunno exactly how much traditionally female socialization actually happened? general social things pressured me to be kind-of-maybe feminine but i mainly ignored them, or tried to.

if (what i think is) nonverbal is happening i can usually kick my thoughts -> words -> thoughts translator into gear enough to actually communicate, but it involves long pauses and concentrating really hard and then what comes out is often incredibly long winded and rambly and has too many tangents and "aaaaahh"s and unrelated thoughts shoved in. oops.

once when i was super upset and overwhelmed i was talking to a social worker and i straightup explicitly asked if we could communicate via text, because i had her phone number and we both have smartphones, but she said no for some reason? that was. frustrating. most of my expirmce with communication stuff goes something like that. like i can ask for the thing but if they say no, that's it. like, i've worked on being able to ask people for things but i can't push farther than that if they refuse the first time.

also i've noticed that when i'm really Not In A Good Place, writing out thoughts is a way to calm down. i write out a formal-type letter to whoever i'm pissed at and because it takes so damn long for me to turn anger-thoughts into coherent words, and longer to make those into something formal in tone, by the time (and often before) i'm done i'm no longer overwhelmed and can assess things calmly.

 

@raybot That is basically what it feels like when I lose the ability to process mouth noises! I can recognize the language, but can't seem to extract the meaning from it, or turn my own thoughts into coherent mouth noises. If it's an emergency I may be able to force out a sentence that is technically English, and it may convey something adjacent to what I need to say, but there's no guarantee.
Thankfully this doesn't happen very often, and I've got my life arranged so I don't actually need to communicate via mouth noises that often. I happen to have received what I call "girl training" and I do a lot of apologizing when I'm starting to lose words. Of course, when I do that my conversation partner just makes placating statements and lets me continue to muddle through whatever I'm trying to say. Not sure what it'd take for me to specifically ask a non-friend for a different communication method.
I suppose if I was overloaded enough I'd just say "Can't words now, I'm going to text you" and deal with any fallout from perceived bitchiness later.

 

AFAB. Got a lot of "How DARE you defend yourself from bullies that is Not Nice!" from teachers. (But also told I should be less shy...yeah)

More of a reply to come.

 

That's a GOOD side of being totally non-verbal - my brain doesn't even look for making mouth noises. First it goes for ASL, then I can (usually) coax it to writing. ASL is first because it is a different brain-pathway than words and works a LOT better and faster.

 

My brain really likes the small amount of ASL I know, so I want to learn more, but I don't have anyone to practice with or even really know how to go about learning it.

 

Oh man, I go non-verbal/semi-nonverbal sooomehwat regularly? And even when I'm super overloaded and need to Get Out, I will still act like Everything Is Fine so I don't bother everyone around me. I don't want to be a bother or a nuisance! I mean yes I am probably minutes away from a melt/shut-down but I CANNOT INCONVENIENCE ANYONE THAT WOULD BE THE WORST.

And then it gets too much and I inexplicably snap and confuse everyone!!!

Though everyone I live with right now is very used to me flubbing all over the place when I speak and I have brought the phrase, "I do words good," into common usage thanks to me frequently wearing this very appropriate shirt.

But uh yeah. My entire decision-making process is, "What is least likely to make people decide that I am a burden and terrible." I do have AvPD tho so ???

(Also I am a cis lady for data comparison purposes.)

 

"I am overloaded and need help. But asking for help requires words. But help is needed to get back to making words. This is frustrating!!!"

And then I go one of three ways:

• [This is fine dog] where I keep my head down and avoid everyone as best I can and just work on the pieces I can handle of things
• Italian hand gesturing to accompany the somewhat stammering attempts to describe the Thing That Is Not Working/Is An Obstacle in hopes that the other person will ask clarifying yes/no questions so we can reach a point where they know something they can do, or they know what to tell me to do so I can take care of it myself.
• Becoming convinced that people are deliberately overloading me as punishment, and becoming more and more sullen and resentful.

 

I would really like to learn ASL, but I don't know how practical it would be...I know one of my partners knows it, but I don't know anyone else who does. still, it would be easier to attempt that, I guess, than trying to make myself get others to accommodate me? maybe?

 

I'm not sure how often I go nonverbal because I don't talk much anyway*, but when it happens, I'll usually just try to stay unnoticed and avoid talking to people until it stops, even though what makes me go nonverbal in the first place is stress. I've gotten up and left the room several times, and left a written note once, though. But I never tried asking anyone for help. I'm AMAB, FYI.

*I hate my voice, my pronunciation sucks in every language I speak, I have fucked-up speech patterns, and talking takes a lot of spoons. If I were able to, I'd never talk again and use typing and/or sign language. Not sure whether I should learn ASL or FSL or something else.

 

I feel this right here. I don't mind my voice, and my pronunciation is generally okay, but the speech patterns and the spoons talking takes....if I had a choice I'd likely never talk again, or speak only rarely.

 

It's weird, I can be downright aggressive in some situations but then riddled with fear and anxiety in other situations. I can't stand up for myself in front of my parents unless absolutely pressed (and then I'm doing the RL equivalent of cry typing) but I've never had problems telling my friends and my husband what I want or if I have a problem. I can handle doctors, government officials, authority figures in general but I'm terrified of teenagers on tumblr starting a hate crusade against me.

I'm AFAB incidentally.

Also in some instances, I decide the possible conflict or drama just isn't worth my saying anything, and it has less to do with my anxiety and more to do with my apathy. Can someone be anxious and apathetic at the same time? Well my brain is trying.

 

I go nonverbal fairly often and it's annoying, esp because my parents think I'm doing it to annoy them

I'm either able to repeat what other people are saying, but that's all, or my mouth just won't make noises. I've been trying to figure out which comes from which situation.