I've seen mention in the little profile updates, so I know at least some of you have seen this! Revolutionary Girl Utena is my absolute favorite anime, so we might as well have a thread about it, right? While I've never read the manga (and have heard it's quite different), I've been into things since I was a teenager. A friend was into it, I heard about it that way, and wee teen 14-year-old me got the movie as a Christmas gift. I understood nothing but for 'I think those are lesbians' at the end, then proceeded to watch it some multiple of ten that rounds off to 'too many' across the years, determined to wring out every bit of symbolism I could. Eventually I found the TV series on youtube, watched it through, and understood a lot more! I similarly fell in love with it and now cherish both for separate reasons. What about you guys? How'd you get into it? Favorite characters or moments or anything?
I was SO MAD about the way the anime ends at first. Spoiler: All the spoilers I was like, youve got this great story, heavy on the symbolism, set up like a fairy tail, and i wanted all that to pay off! What do you MEAN the prince is evil or really her or never real in the first place or...? I wanted Anthy to be saved and Utena to meet her prince and her prince to recognize her as a wonderful prince in her own right. Also maybe for anthy and utena to get married a little. Instead you get....how utena actually ends. The story DOESNT pay off; it falls apart, it gets more and more incoherent, messy, real. The prince is...akio? Anthy doesn't even save herself, she just calls bullshit and refuses to keep playing. Utena is alone? And then who even knows whats going to happen. All the rules change, half the cast Doesnt Get It, everybody is splitting up, little me as the audience was just like. What the actual fuck??????? Until i realized that Utena isnt a fairytale anime. Utena is about growing up. Utena goddamned forces the audience to (re-)experience the confusion and frustration and vulnerability of going from a child's world to an adult's. And thats why I still think Utena is in the top three best anime ever made. Not my personal favorite three--i like it a lot but give me the choice and Ill rewatch fruits basket or ai yori aoshi instead--but in technical terms, one of the most skillful, interesting, ambitious anime that exists.
I think we're basically saying the same thing here, so yeah. This series is something really special. :)
:3 Spoiler: but have you considered Let's look at one thing that keeps bothering me. It's that Akio is supposed to be Dios, but we never see him wield Dios' power. It's Anthy who wields Dios' power. Also Dios exists as a seperate entity from Akio within the rose castle, where he can interact with him, however briefly. If Dios was Akio's past self, shouldn't Akio be able to absorb or use his power from at least the first summary episode onwards, which is where we see Akio and Dios in the same room? And the one character we see who looks literally exactly like Dios in a differently colored uniform is Mamiya, the Rose Bride Groom, revealed to be Anthy disguised by an illusion. I think, the reason Akio needed Anthy was not something about the Rose Bride taking pain so the sword of the prince can unseal Dios' power, in fact the entire position of the Rose Bride is fabricated to keep Anthy seperated from Dios' physical manifestation within the rose castle, keeping the two from realizing each other as parts of themselves. See it would make sense if Anthy was Dios, that she'd default to his appearance when disguising herself as 'a boy who is a rose bride'. And it would make sense for her to be able to summon Dios' sword if she in fact was Dios, but divorced of the biggest part of his powers. Meaning the one to give Utena the ring, and thus lead her on the way to becoming a prince, might have been Anthy. Thus their relationship is a circular one of mutual saving, as whenever Utena is in peril, Anthy/Dios will save her and when Anthy/Dios is in danger, Utena will come to her rescue. And Akio is the imposter prince who wants to steal Dios' power for himself, which is why he holds Anthy captive, claiming she was the witch who stole Dios from the world, when in fact he forcefully and traumatically seperated Dios from Anthy in the hopes of finding a way to absorb his power. Which is why he cannot succeed at unsealing Dios' power for himself, since Anthy is the only one to get it. (That's also why the door vanishes and the coffin in which Anthy is takes its place. Because the key to Dios' power is reuniting Dios and Anthy.)
Spoiler: ehhhhhh I can't really subscribe to that theory, mostly because it doesn't really fit thematically? omg I sound like such an asshole. It kinda changes the show from "There are no princes because the Prince is an unobtainable and toxic ideal" to "there is a Prince and once someone saves them from the evil impostor everything can be fine." Like, I get that that's not what you're saying, but it just gives me a knee jerk reaction.
Spoiler: regarding that scene He does demature into the younger version of Dios first. It goes adult-adolescent-adult-strangely cold and mocking adult. So while I do suppose it's possible to take this at face value and confirmation that Akio is the 'Prince', I see Dios-who-gives-power and Dios-who-became-Akio as different characters? If that makes sense? Like I do not question that Akio is what became of the Princely Boy Who Almost Died (or did he, in fact, die, maybe? That's another question.), It is just that honestly I do not think that Boy Who Became Akio ever had Powers in the mythical, magical sense, which is why he wore himself ragged, trying to save everyone. However the fact stands; we only know he tried but did not succeed to save all Princesses and that Anthy is the one who saves him from certain death, explicitly by drawing the ire of the mob and implicitly through using some sort of Power to actually hide him (Like sorry I know its supposed to be symbolic but you can't tell me it actually worked to just have him lie in that barn and her being stabbed over and over by the swords of hatred. They would have ordinarily found him, right after basically killing Anthy, and made him do his princely thing right to his last breath). That is why the label of Witch is fitting as Anthy is the only chracter freely wielding supernatural powers without any kind of technical gadget to help her (as you will recall it is in the end revealed that Akio's every 'illusion' is but a projection of the planetarium at the top of his tower. He seems unable to cast a genuine glamour even to disguise himself). Also Dios might be the most clearcut personification of the false ideal of a Prince, but he is also constantly the metaphor for supernatural happenings working in our protagonists favors. It is the Sword of Dios for the first two thirds, named as such. (Not anymore during the last third as it is then Utena's sword. Funny how the sword seems to be named after the one whose chest it is drawn from. Okay no Utena's sword doesn't have an official name so this is pure salt.) It is Dios' translucent form descending from the castle in the sky who imbues Utena with duelling expertise in her time of need. The Dios-that-has-Powers has either been forcefully ripped from Akio to leave him so utterly powerless, or was never part of him to begin with. And given that it is still, even at the last second, Akio who claims to be Dios, not Utena explicitly naming him as such, I would actually like to opt out of believing a single word that comes out of the Lucifer metaphor's mouth, thanks. Utena believing him doesn't mean it's true, especially since she even believed Touga however briefly. No matter how much the laws of Anime Appearances contradicted his every word. Princes are still false and do not exist. Maybe I worded that awkwardly. Utena's and Anthy's relationship is a mutual saving on equal footing as one does in a relationship, I suppose. Maybe it's rather a 'the Witch who embraced her Power and the Revolutionary who grew out of being a Prince' type of situation. Or maybe I am just extremely opposed to Akio having any sort of claim to any kind of supernatural powers ever and that's why I'm trying to babble this into a vaguely coherent line of argument.
Spoiler: more prince stuff I am kinda doubting that good and pure supernatural Dios ever existed. Remember that when he appears to empower Utena, he descends from the illusionary castle. And when Utena vows to become a prince and save Anthy, his statue shatters violently, and she is pushing a panicked Akio back all on her own. He's not Akio's illusion, because he's bigger than Akio's projector -- literally -- he's the whole societal illusion of the "pure" prince which Akio himself is trapped in. Or something like that. I've got a good general feeling I'm having trouble putting words to.
Well, I think both theories are genuinely valid on their own merits, I just like Ivy's more. (Just saying so you don't feel like you have to convince people that yours is right.)
Ah! I'm glad to see a thread for Utena. What a fantastic series. I'm of Arxon and Wiwaxia's opinions here, pretty much, although I find Ivy's interesting.
This AMV showed up on my dash and it made me feel things as fresh as the time I watched Utena for the first time. (suffice to say, thar be spoilers)
I'm not actually done with Utena yet, so I won't be reading those spoilers, but God do I love it. The music is great, it involves lesbians (which is always a plus for me) and it's just so fun and symbolism heavy, even if it can be a little repetitive with the plot arcs. I also really love that you get to know certain utterly irredeemable characters and it doesn't excuse their actions but it really does explain it and make them more sympathetic people without going "look, they were secretly just good all along!" Except Touga, who is a manipulative string pulling piece of shit, and Anthy's brother who doesn't deserve a name because he is bad and needs to go away.
Oh man, have I got feelings about Touga. Sad, sad feelings for that awful son of a bitch, swirled together nicely with total disgust.
Touga is such a prick but then knowing what you get to know in the movie, however that fits into canon, I cannot help but just helplessly go D: over him.
reviving this thread because I remembered that I wanted to watch Utena, but I never got past the first two episodes because I found it confusing. I am on episode 4 right now. My thoughts so far I still think Saionji needs to get kicked on the balls WHY IS THE SISTER SO CREEPY AND MEAN (no seriously sibling incest is my biggest squick why this. WHY.) this anime really likes to re use footage, huh? HOW DID UTENA HIDE HER UNIFORM UNDER THAT DRESS HOW DID THAT TABLE CLOTH TURN INTO A DRESS IN LIKE 2 SECONDS (but still awww because they looked so happy when they danced together) WHY DOES EVERYONE SLAP ANTHY. SHE IS CINNAMON ROLL TOO GOOD FOR THIS WORLD, TOO PURE. Mickey (or is it Miki?) is the first boy I do not find completely repulsive and this Worries Me. I need an AU for Steven Universe where everything is the same, but Pearl is the creator of Revolutionary Girl Utena.
yeah, that's one of the few spoilers that I'm going into this series. Not the specific plot details, just that it's a big thing? I think if it's portrayed as something messed up then it's not as bad, but I get squicked out by the "imouto" genre where it's romanticized/played off as normal for siblings to fall in love with each other/get into each other's pants? If that makes sense. but hey, Luka likes it, and it appears to be a big influence on the crewniverse. Both Luka's works and Steven Universe are very good at subverting your expectations and deconstructing tropes, so I figure I'll power through my squick and confusion during the initial episodes because there has to be a good pay off by the end of the series.
yeah, there are also other pics drawn by the crewniverse too with various SU characters cosplaying as utena characters, and Sardonyx has the OHOHOHO laugh, plus I think Luka mentioned there was a reference to the upside down castle in The Answer? I am on episode 6 now. why was there a bunch of chickens and a horse running through the halls, why does everything look old fashioned and then you have basketball and baseball and cars and japanese school uniforms (sorta). WHY IS THE SETTING SO WEIRD AND CONFUSING? Comic relief characters like Chu Chu doesn't help. This series feels disorganized and all over the place (this is why I originally dropped it lol.) but I am determined this time to see it through! at least Mickey is still the least repulsive guy I've seen. Still self centered, but so far he's still not completely terrible.
*Saionji appears in a scene talking about love* Me: get the fuck out of this scene Saionji no one asked you to be here, I havn't seen you in a few episodes and I hope it stays that way forever. Utena: No one asked you Me: *internal screaming because Utena said what I was thinking*
