What the hell is sexual jealousy, and how does it work? I have never felt it. Background. I am either a fallen woman or an active polyamorist, depending on your viewpoint. I have three partners right now, but only one of those relationships has a sexual aspect to it. For the most part, I love comfortably in my romantic triad bubble and sometimes go to kink parties on the weekend, because it's my life. While I absolutely understand the importance of cuing in my partners on my romantic/sexual endeavors, because they want me to do so and I like to do what my partners want me to do, I don't fully understand their motivations. I want to be updated on my partners' experiences for two reasons: I love being involved in their lives and knowing about what's going on with them and how they feel, and I want to make sure no one is being unkind to them. I would rather know about a side problem as it develops than learn later. My partners have another motivation which I really don't understand, and that is jealousy. I very rarely feel jealousy, and I feel it less with time, honestly. When a partner mentions having feelings for another person, I'm usually delighted. That shit is so CUTE. they get happy and mushy and poetic and I love seeing my partners that way. Sure, I'm even happier when it's me making them feel good, but I don't turn down vanilla ice cream just because rocky road ice cream is better. Sometimes I feel a pang of insecurity, but it's just that-- insecurity. I irrationally wonder if this person will become more important to my partner than I am, I worry about whether or not my position is secure. But then I remember my position is secure-- I love my partners, they love me, and outside feelings don't change that for the worse. If my relationships do break up eventually, I wasn't too little for them and I didn't fail at it-- I know how hard I am trying, and I know I've helped them and they've helped me. Recently, the partner I have a sexual relationship with (Codename Kate) asked me to tell them explicitly beforehand if I was getting sexual with someone else. And I agreed right away because I love her and want to make her comfortable. But I don't understand. Tell her before? Why? What does it change? My motivations, being involved in each other's lives and making sure everyone is safe, don't explain this. I'm pretty sure she trusts me to be safe, so it isn't policing my actions. I assume that she'd be jealous or feel bad for some reason if I didn't specifically tell her, before hand, that I'm being sexual with someone else. And I will, because she wants it. But I don't GET IT. Why? What does knowing beforehand change? I say this because I DON'T UNDERSTAND. I don't care when I'm told; I barely care if I'm told. I like knowing what is going on in my partners' lives because I like being involved, I like understanding their situation. I understand if it happens too quickly to tell me, I understand if they take some time to tell me. I want them to live how they want to, and to include me when they want to. I don't get it. And another of my partners (codename Lily), who is a romantic but not sexual partner (she is a repulsed asexual and I jive with that), shocked me by being very concerned with my sexual practices and being really put out when I didn't warn her far ahead of time. I understand one the one hand, because of her negative associations with sex, but she responds to be starting sexual relationships or engaging in sexual practices with jealousy and discomfort. Why? It isn't a threat to her at all. It doesn't remove her from her place in my heart at all. It's not even remotely like the relationship I have with her! I made a HUGE mistake when I formally started my relationship with Kate before I could tell Lily, I know that. I was wrapped up in wanting to make them both happy and I botched it. Lily should have been in the process earlier, and I know that was my mistake, because it crossed a boundary it shouldn't have. And believe me when I say I will pull out the stops to make sure I don't cross it again. But that doesn't change the fact that I don't understand the boundary. Why would this bother her? The sexual relationships I have are NOTHING like our relationship. She knows I am devoted to her, she knows that I am planning to move in with her, we've talked about marriage. We confirmed that this is an open relationship before, and she confirmed that I can have other relationships. Obviously, I do. WE started out as a triad, I've just not mentioned #3 because she isn't jealous. At all. Which is where I am too. I don't understand how another relationship, which I've confirmed is even temporary, since I'm moving, threatens her in any way, or why it's making her feel bad. Is it connected to her feelings of insecurity, as she has always had struggles with self-loathing? Does she have reason to doubt me? Am I doing something really wrong in a way I didn't realize? I suspect there's something I just don't understand about why most people monogamous, and that's starting to scare me. This is a plea for help. What don't I get? What does sexual or romantic jealousy feel like? What causes it? What are you thinking when you feel it? Do you have in depth scientific studies about the causes and psychology of jealousy? Because I want them. I really want to understand this better. PLEASE GIVE ME CONTEXT, I LIVE IN THE SAHARA OF MY OWN MIND. Please refrain from reactions about how weird this is, because, yes, I know. It's weird.
i feel like wanting to know beforehand may be less of a jealousy thing and more of a "just want to be involved and informed on your life" thing! :o knowing beforehand doesnt change anything but it cues your partner in and reassures them that yo, this is a Thing that will probably Happen, and i am making you aware of it!
initial reaction: wanting to know so as to avoid feeling like you get the rug pulled out from under you. also potentially avoiding any feelings of deliberately not being told. those might not be things that you/they worry about, but they can be irrational kneejerks, so perhaps it is a preemptive strike against "why didn't you tell me what was going on?" dunno. i am not poly. just some thoughts. :/ hope it works out...
There probably is a separation there, though I can't personally understand why it is integral, as it is to some people, that I inform them of the hanky panky before it occurs rather than after. It's something I'm willing to do if it's important to people, obviously, but it wouldn't make a different to me. If someone texted me 'i might have a sex tonight' before it happens, I would feel amused and, yes, glad I was informed on grounds of being involved, though a bit worried that it might not go well and that there might be someone being mean to my partner. If someone texts me the morning after informing me for the first time that they had a sex last night, I would feel amused, glad I was informed on grounds of being involved, and slightly worried that it didn't go well and that someone was mean to my partner until reassured. No difference. I'm a bit at a loss to understand what the difference is. What do people gain from knowing beforehand, because I'm starting to be worried that it's a control element. Do you want the option to veto this? Why? I'm grasping at straws here, I have no clue what the before/after distinction does for people, because it's six of one and half dozen of the other for me. ...I also don't like to have to text people before hanky panky because, er, I'm trying to devote my time to one person, not stare at my phone as I converse with other people. Rude. This would be easier if I were more susceptible to social cues and was able to understand I was being flirted with before I was being touched. Thanks for the well wishes, I am filled with determination and MAKING it work out. Lily did feel exactly this way, like she had the rug pulled out from under her, and what I am expressing is that I don't emotionally understand why, and I don't fully intellectually understand either. This is what I am trying to ask. Why did she feel this way? I'm not being difficult, I don't get it. Deliberately not being told... does she think I would do that to her? Is that something a lot of people worry about? She once thanked me for informing her about my silly kink activities by saying it was better than 'finding out later through someone else,' which really through me for a loop. Why would I not tell her? Why would I keep a secret like that? I feel like there's something else I don't understand here. Again, the strong reaction to this doesn't make SENSE to me. I don't personally, viscerally understand why someone else touching/flirting with/anything your partner is offensive unless they are unkind to you or your partner or go out of their way to separate the two of you. I'll go with it, since I know it's important to others, but I don't feel it. This particular 'doing things with another person's partner' area, the sexual area, is disproportionately offensive to people, and something that baffles me is that the offended party is a nonsexual partner. Yes, we've talked a bit about how she feels more insecure because of her distance from me and her feelings that she doesn't deserve me, but why did a basically different kind of relationship, something she has no cause to be envious of, something almost incomparable to something I have with her, trigger those feelings? She doesn't want what I was doing with Kate. What the hell. That was a mess, but the mess accurately conveys my confusion. As a final note, I was talking to someone who has their head on a little more solidly than I do, and she feels that partner jealousy is a blend of envy (wanting an experience your partner is having with someone else), insecurity (feeling like your own relationship with that person is now insecure) and instability (the sheer shock of the unknown.) I will sometimes feel insecurity, which I quickly check off as irrational, but hardly ever the other two. Does this sound like a solid explanation of romantic/sexual jealousy to others? I'm trying to understand a language I don't speak here.
The envy/insecurity/instability blend sounds more or less right to me. Here's a few thoughts. Can you imagine a situation in which you wouldn't want your partner to do sexual things with someone else, even though your partner wouldn't be hurt? For instance, you just really don't like the person they want to do sexual things with, or you were really hoping to spend the time they're going to spend on the someone else. If there's anything like that that could happen, being notified ahead of time lets you talk about it and saves you from being hurt that something you didn't want to have happen happened without your knowledge. Lots of poly people have a certain amount of veto power in their partners' relationships and sex lives, and that only works if you check in in advance. As for a specifically non-sexual partner wanting to know if you're doing sexual things, it's probably because she doesn't want sexual stuff but knows you do that she feels insecure. You aren't able to get your needs met by her in that particular context, and the message that partners should meet all of each other's needs, especially sexual ones, is really culturally ingrained. Hearing that you're going outside your relationships is probably frightening to her, because she feels like she could be replaced by someone who does meet your sexual needs. Hearing about it ahead of time gives her more time to be okay with it, and more reassurance that you do value your relationship with her. I'll keep thinking about this. It's always an interesting and challenging topic. There are some parts of the jealousy thing that make emotional sense to me, and others that I've sort of reasoned through from outside, and others that I just don't get (why does the gender of someone I'm having casual sex with matter so much to my partner???) so I'm enjoying this thread.
i'm not sure, because while i'm nominally interested in sex and relationships i'm also avoiding it like a mofo atm, but it could be that being told beforehand feels less like an afterthought? like, people assume that they are in your mind and thoughts enough to pause, say "one minute, second person, i like you a lot but i must reaffirm my existing bonds before/at the same time as starting new ones", as a way of showing that the first relationship is not put on pause and they are still in your thoughts and heart, whereas if you do it afterwards they feel like that your train of thought was "oh yay new person is so cool and awesome and great and sexy and and and *sex ensues* ... oh right, there was some other guy too." it's all pretty hard to articulate properly and i had to think about it for two days to even find a distinction i thought i could explain, even though emotionally speaking i was like "yeah, i get it". i'm not very surprised that Lily reacted that way, but at the same time i really can't word the distinction well. could it be that she's also a bit insecure about the sex-less angle of your relationship? like, she doesn't want to frick, but it's still one "major" way that our society tells us nonstop that people bond, and it's one she can't engage in with you. maybe since you're sexual and she's not she's fretting a little? sometimes even when you know something is X it's hard not to worry/feel that it could maybe be Z instead.
Fffff I should be at work but now I can't stop thinking about this. Thanks, anxiety, not today, anxiety? Thanks for your services in provoking me consider my motivations and dig into my own psyche but NOT NOW!! This made sense to me, thanks. I do regret it when I have to spend time away from Lily, especially since she often needs help, so yeah, I think a lot of it is that she depends on me to be there are gets understandably upset when I disappear. It's... again, not something I fully understand, as I tend not to be upset when people are randomly gone, I assume they have a reason to be, and it emotionally works for me, for some reason. I'm lucky in that way. But god, it's taken me so long to get used to being there for a person all the time, or for as often as I can make myself be, and to be expected to report on my movements when I leave my computer. That's been hard for me, really hard. The same sort of required reporting gave me a shit ton of anxiety with my mother. I guess this is a conflict of interests I haven't paid enough attention to. She used to get really mad when I wasn't there for a period of time, wasn't contactable, but I've gotten better at it, so there hasn't been a blow up in a while. Guess I forgot about that. I'm trying to set up a new system where I inform her about absences for the day as soon as I know about them. Man, I thought I would be theoretically ok with someone else having veto power until I was staring the human being who could potentially be veto'd by outside forces in the smiling, enthusiastic face. Then I realized I had sure gotten myself in a situation. Don't make promises you're not totally sure you can keep, everyone. This... might be a conflict of interests again. God, this makes me feel awful. I don't want her to feel inadequate. She gives me exactly what I want from her, and more; all I ever expected was that she would be willing to keep talking to me. She gives me herself. No one person exists to supply another person's every need. I must somehow communicate this strongly. God, the thought that I could have been accidentally making her feel inadequate just. Ow. Fuck. Serves me for making assumptions. Actually, I could see myself actually getting more internally riled up if one of my partners was seeing a man rather than a woman. That's because I fear men and would be afraid for her safety. Let's suffer through this bewildering wasteland together.
Avoid away, independent one. Yours is a noble path. This is something else that didn't fully occur to me, thanks. I like to think I've been vocal enough about her importance to me, but maybe I haven't. What I was trying to do was give the person I was with the time they deserve and be fully with them before returning to Lily and being fully with her, but, surprise surprise, my moon logic is kind of inscrutable to people NOT LIVING ON THE MOON. This is why I love crowdsource context. Thank you, other people. I'm going to bust a tit how do I convince my asexual girlfriend that she is good enough and that she doesn't have to do anything to deserve my love and attention. Oh wait maybe I stop living my life like a freshman in a state school. It's the thing where... to be honest, I feel gross and weird enough for being sexual, that I sometimes forget she could feel weird for being asexual. She's the awesome, self-contained person who doesn't need my perversions mucking up the place and being gross. Why the hell would she want to know? I was honestly shocked when she didn't just wrinkle her nose and say 'Ew, stop talking about it.' Which is ingracious of me, and I think to think it reflects my own poisonous relationship to myself rather than poor assumptions about her. hopefully. Why on earth would someone I love, someone I want to marry, even want to give time of the day to me being kind of weird and gross on the side? Self-hating language, I know, but that's the skewed perspective I live in. She cares way more than I even give her credit for. It's not something that I can understand why she would care about.
Hey, I just want to take a quick second to thank the people who have helped me sort things out in this thread just far. Just had a good discussion with Lily, in which the points about asexuality and sexual jealousy that @reiyel and @alarivana brought up were pretty on the nose. Thanks, you have helped me relationship better today.
I'm glad I was able to help and that you had a good conversation with Lily. I really hope you aren't beating yourself up too much, though. It means a lot that you want to understand and take her feelings into account. I've known a lot of people who would just decide that their partner's feelings weren't rational, and fixing that was their partner's responsibility. Your willingness to not do that and instead try to see where she's coming from speaks highly of you. I'm willing to bet you'll be able to keep working things out.
Thanks a lot. It's nice to hear that. I tend to think that speaks well of me, but sometimes, it seems like it just speaks to my great inability to get things the first time >u< It occurs to me that my way of coping for not being monogamous is essentially trying to make myself be The Full Partner for each of my girlfriends. Give them everything they need and not ever drop the ball on being there and being there with what they need to feel better when something goes wrong. Obviously that isn't the point of polyamory (you explore each relationship individually and let them all be what they need to be) but the sting of not being a perfect puzzle piece monogamist gets to us all, I guess. Even the vast majority of monogamists. I have noticed that they also tend to feel bad about not being superhumanly perfect for their partners. Sucks. We need to lessen how much of a monopoly that narrative has on romance somehow. No person was made to be the perfect other half to another.
