thread origination derail

Kathy was talking a bit about the same thing.

What is the point of yelling at me until I agree with (group) if changing my opinion has no affect on the context of what I say?

To tangent, one or more people declared CICO was disordered eating. I think someone from the anti-CICO was brought around to that it's a tool that could be valuable or could be misused. (Tangent again, axes could be used for murder-purposes or chopping wood. I'll refrain from expanding unless asked.) If there were a complete divide on the issue instead of people moving to the middle of the maze, all sorts of nasty things could happen. But if person X was dismissed by CICO-moderates as a CICO-anti and nothing could get through to them even after they came around? Maybe even expanding to "they like the fad-diets that CICO prevents."

Topic shift

NOTE: I think I lost some things because I haven't had breakfast yet and I've been up for 6 hours after not eating much yesterday, please poke me if it's something you'd like a response on.

Topic shift again.

Discord looks fixed. I'll look into thiamine. I won't automatically fix everything, but it might cut down on problems.

 

Oh, I was just slicing tomatos and remembered something.

My mom is a teetotaler, so no alcohol-related memory problems unless it's caused by Crohns (somewhat like celiac) even in remission.

She heard me ask my uncle to bring his knife-sharpening kit next time he came over because hers knife needed some work. (Unspoken, but while her "sharpener" could fix some problems with the edge, it kinda needed some TLC that might mean grinding a few micrometers to create a new edge.) She insisted that I called her knife "crappy" in that conversation. (It is a cheap knife, but that just means it needs a lot of work to keep it in good shape.)

 

That ties in to the communication issue we've been talking about, yeah.

At present I have identified a problem Athol has with presenting theories, thoughts and opinions as fact via word choice. In combination with learned behaviors, problematic information sources, and difficulty with expressing her actual beliefs this results in things looking much, much worse than intended.

I have looked over the wiggled post referred too earlier and offered my interpretation of it as requested, and also helped brainstorm ways to express how she feels and is thinking without accidentally throwing people under the bus.
Once she clarified what she had been intending to say, I believe we have mostly workshopped a way to say it clearly and concisely, rather than it being the very contextually loaded negative statement from the original post.

 

I am unsure what you are saying here - are you saying that your mother does not have any alcohol related memory problems? If she does not drink, that would make sense.
Are you saying that you do not recall calling the knife crappy in the conversation, or that you did not and she thinks that you did?

 

Okay, so I'm taking you seriously when you say you don't get why pronouns matter to people.
When you go your whole life (or even just part of it) being called the wrong name and pronouns, finding the set that makes you feel like a person again is...amazing. It is so freeing to figure out that you don't have to just grin and bear the daily feeling that something isn't right. For me, figuring out I was nonbinary happened during a really rough period in my life. Being able to find community in other trans people, especially other nonbinary people, honestly kept me alive.
Being called "she", or being told I "look female" (even though I know it's true, thanks for the reminder) is a punch in the face. It reminds me that no matter how I dress and act and present myself, most people will never see me as I am.
I'm sure you didn't mean to hurt me, but you did. I'm sure it just sounded like stating the obvious, but you need to think about why you felt the need to do that.
Why did you want to justify your misgendering, knowing now that it hurts so much?
Please, just think about it.

 

I did not call her knife "crappy" in that particular conversation and she said I did. If here knife were crappy, I would have suggested replacement instead of having someone who knows a good bit about knives spend time fixing it. I might have complained about how godawful it was before she pulled out the "sharpener" that's more of a honing tool.

So my mom does the over exaggeration too and it doesn't have a direct correlation to alcohol.

 

That sounds like you've learned it from her, and that she's being passive aggressive, petty and gaslighty. I would suggest double checking your posts for signs of that sort of thing and pruning it out before submitting it to the post mod queue, removing that stuff makes it vastly easier to communicate in a productive way.

 

Thanks for the explanation. I'll work on trying to completely and deeply understand it, but what I might achieve is a shallow understanding of "it matter to you even if I don't get it beyond that point." I think you've gotten to the shallow understanding of my context of not understanding why it matters.

Even the possibility that I was autistic was a context of maybe the fundamental problem with me is something that can't completely be fixed, and especially not without identifying that it's a fundamental part of my nature and not just something I decided to fail at.

Anecdote time: I accidentally told a TG to talk about getting screened for PCOS because I was reading the signs of a hormone imbalance in a AFAB the same as whatever's going on with her. (Sorry for the lack of detail, but I wasn't up to prying further even if she gave signs that it might be okay.)

Can you understand that the misgendering is because it's hard to keep track? Hanlon's razor. I'm not sure how much effort I can expend in remembering everyone's pronouns. I think you mentioned that your sig didn't show it before, and it is still hard-to-see. (Left justify on the pronoun part and still centering the trollhunter part might make it more visible, if that's possible.) I'm sorry that it hurt.

 

I appreciate the apology. Two things: "transgender" is an adjective, not a noun. Don't call people "transgenders" or "a transgender". In the anecdote you gave, saying "a trans woman" works just fine.
Secondly, I can accept that you have difficulty remembering pronouns. I have a shit memory, I get it. However, you have been repeatedly corrected about Spock's pronouns and still stubbornly insist on calling her "he". The more you do something like that after being corrected, the more likely people are to read it as intentional, especially given your reaction to being corrected. Try practicing defaulting to "they" if you can't remember.

 

Okay, I'll try to remember Spock is a she, or go more into they even if I think I'm sure about gender.

A quick question about calling someone a TG, does this apply to writing in the Paradise universe? I kinda don't want to write a character who would break that slang because what makes sense is for that character to not care enough to realize it's a problem if it even is a problem in that universe.

 

It's fine to use that kind of terminology in fiction, however, given your previous expressed views, I'd be extremely wary that this might be reflecting your actual views.

But sure, in writing it's generally fine because the only people hurt are fictional.

I would, however, encourage to look at this hypothetical character and ask yourself "why is this the only way I can think of to display that they don't give a shit about other people's feelings". Both from a standpoint of "am I projecting my actual thoughts onto this character" and one of simple writing advice.

 

Um no, from what I read of the Paradise universe, the common slang is to call someone a TG. It might be a product of its time, but gender/sex mismatches weren't treated the same way they are today. Considering that stories set in 2018 are after everyone in the world knows about the furry thing and normal humans are outnumbered, and the most interesting stories are about the early days where you could run into a Changed but they were a minority... it might be worth it to reboot the universe if anyone else is interested. Basically same type of universe, but everything happened 20 years later than the original Paradise setting, and some social things happened differently because it hit a bit later.

The story I'm thinking about would mostly be the same whether I write it as happening in the 90's or the 10's. I just need to think about technology slightly.

 

I was not aware of what the Paradise universe even was until nowish, so I do apologize for assuming that the terminology of "a TG" may have been coming from your own place rather than being already established in-universe.

As I said though, speaking in fictional universes, it's fine because if anyone does get hurt, they're a fictional being. You seem to understand now and why "a TG" is offensive and plain inaccurate for usage irl, so that's great!

 

I have the same sort of problem except I'm at the step where it's weird and only just realizing that other people have different feelings about the matter and could get hurt by it.

 

It's itchy as all getouts because the first reaction is to find it condescending. But I try to approach things from "they're trying to be nice" first without getting a riled up about the offense.

 

i read some of that tvtropes page and the characters called "TG" don't seem trans so much as permanently biologically genderbent. so that's not really comparable to calling Real Human Beans "TG"

 

Also, I appreciate your apology to me, but you misgendered me once. Spock deserves substantially more apologies than I do, because your misgendering of her has been consistent and you have responded very belligerently when corrected. I'm glad you acknowledged that you plan to do better with her pronouns, but an apology is very much still in order.