Reporting the mods

point of note, choice might be coming into it somewhere, as in, deliberately choosing to drink more and therefore become drunk.

 

Been watching and biting my tongue but this. I have an entire family of alcoholics and I use to be one: being a drunk does not make you a bigoted idiot. Likely pushing too hard when she's SAID she has other shit she feels that she has to deal with could literally cause her to shut-down completely. In her position if I had that many people flat out ignoring what I thought was important (Be it stupid ass racist idiocy or not) in an effort just to scream 'GO TO REHAB' it'd make me damn sure to never go to rehab. She needs to go to rehab, but if she doesn't do it on her own time. If she thinks it's ~just another trip to rehab~ she won't get better. Period. (This response is not me defending her not going to rehab, it's me saying that pressuring anyone into any kind of treatment like that in an adversarial environment will rarely go how you want it to. To her the hoarding is much more important than the alcohol, people have to accept that as the line.)

That would be the kind of thing she'd end up internalizing because it's pretty clear that all of you are on different conversations. I know it's hard with someone who is clearly digging a hole with the express intent to reach China, earth's core be damned, but she's not misunderstanding what is said here or not 'getting' it because she's an alcoholic. Not necessarily because she's drunk. Her being sober doesn't mean she'll get any better at 'getting' that what she says is racist / homophobic / awful quite often. She is, all on her own no alcohol needed, being an absolute idiot.

I'm a former alcoholic and all of this blaming-the-alcohol-not-the-crime is getting me REAL uncomfortable. All of the fucked up shit I said when I was drunk was still shit that I thought, and while thinking that shit I never even considered rehab or considered my drinking a problem even when I had all of my friends telling me it was a problem. I couldn't see it as a problem until I had therapy under my belt too, and shit if Athol can get into rehab and actually take to quitting that's great! I just grew up with way too many people whose experience with rehab was basically "see you again next week Paul". I personally was only able to quit when I didn't have a reason to drink (Mental health + Chronic pain + PTSD), rehab never helped me with any of that.

I'm quoting because this is said nicer than my angry "It's 100 degrees in here and I must scream." A lot of this also feels like a way for her to get the idea that she can blame everything shitty she's done on the alcohol.

 

yeah it was about the bpd thing, I did not choose to be bpd but I can choose whether to drink or not.

 

Hm. Those are some good points, @anonnymouse. You too, @Jove. I'm just... I guess what I should have said is, what do you mean when you say you're not going to tolerate being treated like she treats Spock? The only responses I can think of that would be different from tolerating it (disengaging, say, or arguing) would also destroy your chances of helping. It seems... unproductive to offer Athol help if your offer's going to collapse as soon as she keeps acting the way she's been acting all along. Helping Athol seems like an activity that would require quite a lot of toleration.

 

Not tolerating it means not allowing the conversation to continue until the harm done has been recognized and apologized for. Not engaging with topic shifts, self-deprecation, etc, imo.

 

@TheSeer, what @Kathy Jones said pretty much exactly, and being mindful of my own boundaries for myself (re: not sacrificing my own health).

 

I got tired, and if you can't beat them, join them. This is what I was trying to get at when I said you were going off the deep end at me, but oh no you had to get all offended instead of stopping it.

 

That's fair and also understandable. I think most people who've been trying to engage with Athol have, by this point, started to burn out on compassion for them. All we have is what she types, yes, but what she types is words that don't indicate she's actually even paying attention to what other people say to her half the time. She has spent a lot of time arguing with people who wanted to help her learn to be less racist, over whether things she was being told are dogwhistles (or flat-out racist) were actually as bad as we were telling her they were. She is on post mod because she has not shown any indication that she can/will refrain from posting things that will be harmful to other users, even when told "hey, don't do that, that hurts people and this is why".

What we have gotten from Athol is a lot of abuse when we try and help her. And yes, alcoholism is a disease, but...being sick doesn't excuse the bigoted, hateful stuff she's thrown at people. At most, it explains why no one's managed to make any significant progress in helping her.

 

You were severely making bad assumptions. Like, really several steps in to a bad assumption.

It's like how I assumed that the mods were trying to snub me when they missed my name change request.

 

You know, I'm not really in a state to go through things that are that wholeheartedly upsetting right now. So I am just going to maliciously ignore you just to get your dander up. /s

Were you the one that wiggled a statement that I don't understand whether or not it's okay to "something Jews&Hollywood" and it got wiggled for anti-semitism when it should have been for bad-faith question.

 

No, she was talking about the bad assumptions she admitted making.

 

What I did once one of the mods explained was to accept that my assumption was wrong.

If I acted like the mods, I would have yelled at them for back-pedaling and insisted that my assumption was right.

 

Okay, question: @Athol Magarac is you specific beef that Spock used the word "lying" (implying complete awareness and wilfully intent) when, from your perspective, the booze fueled, stress edited reality was completely correct (even though it was actually extremely warped)?

Please answer yes or no without amy attached rambling.

 

Just to see which post I was complaining about when I started this thread.

 

Yeah, thanks to your meddling I'm not going to even try to get things squared away with Etan.

I wasn't lying when I said that the mods refused to explain.