Anime club

Discussion in 'Fan Town' started by liminal, May 9, 2015.

  1. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    Watch it a woman get hits in the face with tennis balls and this is all that matters in life.

    Or watch Cyborg 009 (2001 series) instead because 009 is great and stuff.
     
    • Like x 1
  2. liminal

    liminal I'm gonna make it through this year if it kills me

    Listen you I am already rewatching .hack//SIGN that is enough toonami circa 2003 anime for me thank you
    seriously do you want to kill me with nostalgia
     
  3. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    YOU WATCHED CYBORG 009 TOO?

    yessss

    That was the shit. I've watched a bit of the 60's series too and it was amusing in an old 60's anime sort of way. And the manga's great though dated. RE:Cyborg was just kind of. Ok. I did cry at the end though? Overall it wasn't the best film for a revival type thing though. I didn't even get to see 008 do something cool. Man. I still need to read the western comic adaptation of it too. Argh. It looks so great.
     
  4. Exohedron

    Exohedron Doesn't like words

    I am generally under the impression, possibly faulty, because I have no understanding of how people work, that people tend to be more worried about possibly problematic material rather than being bored. The complaints that I've seen about KLK overwhelmingly focuses on the problematic content. Telling people that I am bored rather than offended by gratuitous rape scenes tends to garner me weird looks, as if people expect offense to be something that people are capable of feeling. I'm not sure what swirlingflight has heard about KLK, and "isn't stupid enough" doesn't sound like something that people would complain about generally.
    I would eat the dead dove, except I'm not fond of bird meat. Too many bones. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that this might not be the general reason that people wouldn't eat the dead dove.

    Regarding dogs: you were arguing that the show is aware of what it's doing, despite acknowledging that there is problematic stuff. So I was pointing out the problematic stuff that goes unexamined. Like yeah, the incest is there, and examined, and considered vile and terrible. But there's also all the other stuff that isn't examined and you're dismissing it as "guys being perverted" and "fanservice" when that is exactly the stuff that people point out as problematic, besides the incest. That's not examined, that's not aware. Yes, it's the state of the industry. So yes, it's in there, because it wants to sell. But it's in there without any commentary on it, any pulling back and saying "okay, this is what sells, this is what everyone is here for, but this is bad", either implicitly or explicitly. I mean, gag boobs are state of the industry. They call it "Gainaxing" for a reason on tvtropes.
    Furthermore, as I pointed out, the male fanservice and the female fanservice are treated very differently. Again, it might be because that's the state of the industry, but that still doesn't mean that the imbalance should just be there and not be commented on.

    Breaking this apart:
    1: There is problematic stuff. We agree that there is some. I think we disagree as to how much problematic stuff there is, possibly because I am reading certain things into the presentation that you are not.
    2: There is some level of awareness on the part of the writers that the stuff is problematic. We agree that there is some awareness. We disagree on how much awareness there is, in part because I think we disagree on what there is to be aware of.
    3: None of this has any impact on how much I do or do not enjoy the show, except that most of the problematic bits I find rather tedious.

    Point 2 was the one I have been most concerned about, and I regret not making that clearer. My understanding of your position is that you have been more focused on point 1, with a side branch of point 3. I have no idea what swirlingflight wanted. Most of the complaints I have come across regarding KLK are a mixture of points 1 and 2; the more coherent of them tend to focus on point 2. Unfortunately, a lot of my argument regarding point 2 relied on clarifying point 1, muddying the issue, and I don't think I was sufficiently clear that the things I mentioned were in the specific context of not being examined by the show. For the most part it appears we agree that they were there, but I think we disagree about whether they were commented on. But it could just be that we disagree as to what we're arguing about.

    So that's my understanding of the conversation. Please let me know if my understanding of your position and concerns are not accurate.
     
  5. swirlingflight

    swirlingflight inane analysis and story spinning is my passion

    I wanted reviews of KLK, and to see if I understood everyone correctly.

    Is the topic of the first post not a matter of feminism, that it doesn't measure up to a standard of feminism? It sounded like you were saying that KLK was less critical of its subject matter than it could have been. You said there is "problematic stuff" in it that the writers included without commentary or subversion.

    I'm mostly confused why you specify that you're not offended by those things, but bored and irritated by them.
     
  6. Starcrossedsky

    Starcrossedsky Burn and Refine

    I do agree that we have a difference of opinion over what belongs in point 1 and therefore disagree on points of point 2. I feel also that we have a huge difference of opinion on what constitutes bad/problematic fanservice, where your definition is way larger than mine, and on how much of a problem having fanservice within a show is. Your Feminism Standards appear to be much stricter than mine, and I suppose that if I had such strict standards I wouldn't have enjoyed it nearly as much as I did.

    But also I think a lot of confusion comes from the fact that you didn't make your own, personal opinion of the show clear. Even if that opinion is "the show was kind of boring," that's kind of??? The thing I would expect someone to talk about in their review? Like, look at mine, I talk about the parts of it that mattered most to me and the things I felt were most important to warn about (which also seems to be somewhere we differ; your approach seems to be one of the "exhaustive list" variety whereas mine is "this is the Worst Thing, if you can handle this you'll be ok" sort). When I'm looking at a new potential show, I don't want to know what People on the Internet think is ProblemBad about it; I want to know what people I know/trust experienced as they watched it. So that's what I talked about.

    It's kind of like the problem of professional movie critics hating action movies, versus the common folk loving them, or at least that's my feeling. We came in with totally different priorities in our comments. Yours was more focused on the social impacts, mine was focused on "Did I have fun, yes/no."
     
    • Like x 1
  7. Exohedron

    Exohedron Doesn't like words

    I do think KLK was less critical, maybe not of the main subject matter, but of presentation, than it could have been. It's like "race-unspecified casting" always yielding white actors; not a plot point, not a theme of the story, but still an issue.

    But I don't find problematic stuff offensive, with or without being critical of it. I find it boring, and I find criticism of it boring, but that's irrelevant to whether it's there or not, so I didn't want to talk about boredom initially. As @Starcrossedsky mentioned, I initially didn't separate personal opinion regarding my enjoyment of the show separate from the social commentary. I have a bad habit of not talking about personal enjoyment because I don't person much and don't really put any stock in how much I enjoy things. I don't draw an enjoyment or offense distinction between rape and consensual sex in media, critical or subverted or not, but there are people who do. I will happily watch a number rise for hours, regardless of whether the label says "dollars in account" or "death toll from earthquake". I also violate Grice's conversational maxims all the time by accident. So, I apologize for not being clearer as to which criteria I was measuring the show against. I specify boredom versus offense versus problematic now, because those are very different things and leave very different impressions on the viewer, and I went for problematic in the first post because that's the only thing which I trust to have some vague understanding of what other people's views on that are, although as I am learning I may be mistaken on that as well.
     
  8. Deresto

    Deresto What's your favorite Pokemon?

    i've only watched one episode so far but i found an anime that can be used to perfectly describe moiraillegance. it's not a perfect one but the pair seem to function exactly as moirails are described in homestuck imo. i kinda hope it doesn't turn into a "friends who actually are in luuuv forever and are just playing friendzone right now" b/c i'm really tired of that crappy cliche. it's called My Little Monster, not sure on the japanese title.

    bonus points, the main girl char has the same hair style as maka in soul eater :3c
     
  9. Elaienar

    Elaienar "sorta spooky"

    @Deresto AREN'T THEY CUTE? I'm a bit further in than that and I will ship Shizuku/Haru in any quadrant, but I honestly don't know where the relationship storyline is going and I'm okay with that. I think part of it is that it doesn't really feel like a will they/won't they thing, more like ... we're watching the natural progression of a relationship between two kids who might or might not wind up romantically involved. It doesn't feel like a gimmick, I mean.
     
    • Like x 1
  10. Exohedron

    Exohedron Doesn't like words

    I just binged all of the Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun anime since I caught up with the manga. I think I'm developing a character type: hypercompetent + completely oblivious. Which basically describes half the cast of GSNK.

    Also I was recently reminded that I still tear up when hearing the opening to PMMM. Thanks, Froborr.
     
    • Like x 1
  11. witchknights

    witchknights 27 Bold Enchanter Defends The Fearful

    i will forever love princess tutu in vain, because no one else has heard about it outside the tag and like, Mark Watches.
    i'm also PRETTY HYPE over the new digimon OVAs, but that's where my knowledge of modern anime stops.
     
  12. Starcrossedsky

    Starcrossedsky Burn and Refine

    That has been the opposite of my experience. Everyone has heard of princess tutu.
     
  13. Deresto

    Deresto What's your favorite Pokemon?

    wait. waaaait a second. okay so im rewatching hunter x hunter and the main premise of the beginning of the show is that gon's dad took the hunter exam at twelve, became a hunter at twelve, and never came back to the island gon lived on. gon's also supposedly never been off the island before his own go at the exam. are... you telling me a twelve year old did it with someone and then went to take a life threatening exam and never returned, and everyone was just okay with that? either plot hole or this anime is more messed up than previously realized. hm.
     
  14. KarrinBlue

    KarrinBlue Magical Girl Intern

    OK I dunno if any of you have seen Nanoha, but I've just rewatched the last couple of episodes of Strikers and the new ViVid and eee I love this show. My only disappointment is that there will probably be a spinoff that is just about Sieg, Victor, and Harry being nerds and punching stuff together.
     
  15. Exohedron

    Exohedron Doesn't like words

    I love Nanoha, both the series and the character. She's such a shonen character, but as a magical girl. I hope ViVid the anime is a little more tightly paced than ViVid the manga; the tournament arc kind of drags, especially since it's a bit of a letdown in power levels compared to the other Nanoha series.
    Are you reading any of the manga? Force is kind of garbage, but Innocent is wonderful. I really wish Innocent would get animated.
     
  16. KarrinBlue

    KarrinBlue Magical Girl Intern

    Huh, I dunno. I think Sieg's probably around the same power levels as the Forwards at least. Though I gotta say that the current miniarc in the Library with the Jeremiah notes is one that I've been looking forward to for a while give me the ancient belka space opera now.

    The ViVid anime is currently progressing at about 2 chapters per episode, and so far has been pretty faithful to the anime? Though they have been cutting some small scenes out, and completely rearranging the order of fights.

    I've read all of Vivid and I'm current on Innocent. I haven't read Force in a while because, yeah, garbage. And an animated Innocent would be so fun. The Dark Materials are so very fun, I'd love to see them animated.
     
  17. chthonicfatigue

    chthonicfatigue Bitten by a radioactive trickster god

    As far as I remember, Ging brought Gon back to Whale Island as a baby to be brought up by Mito-san.
    No-one misses Ging during his twelve-year absence because Ging is a selfish ass.
     
    • Like x 1
  18. KarrinBlue

    KarrinBlue Magical Girl Intern

    Also, frankly, I'm not so certain that there is such a huge power disparity between Vivid and previous shows. I mean, looking at the fight scenes from the original series, it looks like the power levels are around the same. Which makes sense! Aside from Vivio and sort of Einhart, none of Team Nakajima has been in real combat before and they're ten (or twelve in Einhart's case.) And even then - Corona can make a two-story-tall golem with rocket punches, just as an example. That's pretty impressive!
     
  19. Exohedron

    Exohedron Doesn't like words

    I guess I am just comparing to Nanoha in, say, A's, or I guess Caro losing it in Strikers and summoning a French philosopher. Nanoha is certainly a special case, and of course one wouldn't expect another like her to pop up so easily. But I guess it's really the tournament format, and the lack terrible childhood trauma, that prevents the battles from being as energy-wastingly spectacular as the aerial dogfights from A's and Strikers. No room for beamspam in a strike-arts ring.
     
  20. KarrinBlue

    KarrinBlue Magical Girl Intern

    Well, there's only four fights left in the tournament arc, then there's some time spent in the Infinite Library learning about Belka.

    Also, with regards to childhood trauma - does Sieg count?
     
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