Okay yeah. That second conversation makes me feel a lot better about her. She realizes that she was wrong (which is a big step, and a very important one to me personally), AND she wants to take steps to fix it. And you also want to fix it, so I think there's a definite chance of it working out. I think the code words thing is a very good idea. You might have to take extra steps to ensure that it works as designed (like a guilt free way to say "we need to stop talking right now" with it any connotations that make that mean something else), but if you think it's worth it, it's definitely do able. And I think she mentioned this, but I think it's important to have a stated "rule" that neither of you is responsible for the other's emotions, especially if those emotions are not known to you. So basically, if you don't actually state that you're hurt by something, she can't be accountable for doing that thing that hurts you, because she doesn't know it hurts you. And vice versa. This is something I also personally struggle with, so I know it's hard, but if you two can always have that rule to fall back on, it might help. Especially since she seems to tend to make preemptive decisions based on what she thinks other people's emotions are (also something I do that I'm trying to stop...). And it looks like she recognizes that this isn't the best strategy, so that's good. Basically you guys are gonna have to be more explicit about your feelings than most people (especially allistics) tend to have to, but in the long run, it's probably better that way. [edit: spelling]
I am kind of out of ability-to-word-thoughtfully-and-coherently but I just want to tell everyone who commented on this and gave me advice thank you very, very much, and I am definitely going to take it all into consideration 0u0.
Ok I am going to revive this ancient fucking thread because I have had another conversation w/ friend. I know in advance this time that I fucked up but I still don't know how to help her or how to apologize in a way that won't make her mad or dismissive Spoiler: convo brief context: we are talking about a comic that we wanna make together, her arting and me writing, mostly, with some overlap [8:31:41 PM] Arxon: hi hello I was, in fact, napping [8:31:44 PM] Arxon: srry [8:32:15 PM] Arxon: Walpurgis Phenomenon is prolly my fave of the suggestions [8:32:38 PM] Friend: hm [8:35:22 PM] Arxon: also, thoughts re: panel type Ava's Demon does things in a more storyboardy manner, and soends a lot of panels on simple actions and scenery to relate the mood Each panel needs to have more visual impact in that kind of setup, and its best if the site its hosted on can switch between panels extremely quickly [8:35:47 PM] Friend: yeah [8:35:49 PM] Friend: Just [8:36:06 PM] Friend: arranging them is going to take even more time and it's super not fun [8:36:49 PM] Friend: I don't have the brainspace for creative variety like ever [8:37:01 PM] Arxon: if u want, I can get u manga studio for u bday I am p sure that has tools to make panel layout easier [8:37:26 PM] Friend: Nothing about drawing boxes is fun [8:37:35 PM] Friend: Even if it's really easy to do it [8:37:37 PM] Friend: :< [8:37:50 PM] Friend: then again that [8:37:54 PM] Friend: could just be me i guess [8:38:12 PM] Arxon: alright but doing it the Ava's demon way means a LOT more background art if u want I can do panel layout? [8:38:23 PM] Friend: yeah I guess [8:38:40 PM] Arxon: Like I said, I'd be happy to storyboard [8:39:02 PM] Friend: honestly I kinda [8:39:10 PM] Friend: you seem way too busy to storyboard [8:39:27 PM] Arxon: rn I am because I am taking fast track classes [8:39:42 PM] Arxon: I will prolly be less stressed, esp around beginning of next semester' [8:40:21 PM] Friend: sure [8:40:30 PM] Friend: I just wish there was something useful I could do now [8:40:31 PM] Friend: but [8:40:34 PM] Friend: as usual [8:40:45 PM] Friend: mh [8:41:08 PM] Friend: maybe starting a project isn't the way to leech away my misery and depression [8:41:27 PM] Friend: as satisfying as it is to draw something that I can pretend looks done [8:41:42 PM] Friend: it only leads to more frustration when I have to scrap it or stop [8:41:48 PM] Friend: bluhhhhh [8:42:43 PM] Arxon: maybe you can look up tutorials? or at least what dif people have said about making comics and such [8:42:52 PM] Friend: yeah [8:42:59 PM] Friend: I just [8:43:11 PM] Friend: I've been feeling like all this prep isn't really doing anything at all [8:43:38 PM] Arxon: [friend] most people don't just start comics out of nowhere they do things over and over, they tweak things [8:43:40 PM] Arxon: it takes a while [8:44:33 PM] Friend: I [8:44:37 PM] Friend: idk [8:45:11 PM] Friend: i keep feeling like if I do something that feels useful it'll make me happy but [8:45:13 PM] Friend: I can't [8:45:23 PM] Friend: there's nothing I can do that's like that [8:45:30 PM] Arxon: yeah that doesn't work it just makes you stressed [8:45:31 PM] Friend: no goal to accomplish when it comes to art [8:45:57 PM] Friend: I feel better when I can accomplish goals but the goals I really want to accomplish are too far out of reach [8:46:00 PM] Friend: it feels hopeless [8:46:02 PM] Friend: like [8:46:08 PM] Friend: I'm never ACTUALLY going to get there [8:46:24 PM] Friend: and yet I can't do ANYTHING unless I fool myself into thinking it MEANS something [8:46:38 PM] Arxon: Well just make smaller goals like maybe start out with figuring out characters, doing smaller sketches, stuff like that [8:46:50 PM] Friend: But I've tried that [8:46:54 PM] Friend: its never enough [8:47:09 PM] Friend: It's not the type of thing anyone would look at and go [8:47:14 PM] Friend: "Oh you accomplished something" [8:47:20 PM] Friend: it doesn't mean anything to anyone [8:47:34 PM] Friend: how is that going to prove I haven't fucked up my whole existance entirely [8:47:44 PM] Friend: ugh [8:47:54 PM] Friend: this whole conversation is fucked [8:48:05 PM] Friend: on my end of course [8:48:27 PM] Friend: I thought I could draw and pretend to work but obviously that can't happen now [8:48:36 PM] Friend: idfk [8:48:42 PM] Friend: what do you think I should work on then [8:48:57 PM] Arxon: maybe try drawing fanart and posting it online? that can help with validation feels [8:49:08 PM] Friend: no one will see it [8:49:26 PM] Friend: And it doesn't really interest me right now [8:49:56 PM] Arxon: well then I don't fucking know [friend] I cant fucking get myself to do anything right! Go to a fucking therapist because I cant be that for you! go to school, accomplish something there! [8:50:35 PM] Arxon: I am a fucking human mess and I can't do anything right and every time I try and help you you just get mad at me! [8:50:46 PM] Friend: im not getting mad at you [8:50:48 PM] Arxon: like I'm a fucking idiot and no ideas I have can ever be right! [8:51:11 PM] Friend: sorry [8:51:23 PM] Friend: I forget stuff like this stresses you out [8:51:35 PM] Friend: well [8:51:38 PM] Friend: more than just you [8:51:44 PM] Friend: I guess it would stress anyone out [8:52:00 PM] Friend: I'll try and remember from now on [8:52:23 PM] Friend: I'll let you get on with your life in the meantime. Sorry for freaking you out [8:52:33 PM] Friend: Everythings fine [8:52:41 PM] Friend: just get some food and rest [8:52:47 PM] Friend: See you on friday [8:52:52 PM] Friend: I'll be better by then [8:53:16 PM] Friend: or after this I probably wont I guess but that's fine too [8:53:29 PM] Friend: whateverr you need [8:53:31 PM] Friend: ttyl [8:53:36 PM] Arxon: look nothing I suggest to you ever makes you feel better! [8:53:46 PM] Arxon: are you just asking me to get your fucking depression pain fix? [8:54:01 PM] Arxon: I've never fucking helped you, I always make you feel worse [8:54:13 PM] Friend: not really [8:55:14 PM] Friend: sorry [8:55:17 PM] Friend: that was vague [8:55:24 PM] Arxon: https://kintsugi.seebs.net/ here is the forum I go on for getting advice and for chatting and screaming into the fucking void it is full of people who can help with mental health problems a thousand times more than me [8:55:24 PM] Friend: I meant you don't usually make me feel worse [8:56:19 PM] Arxon: it just feels like you use me to feel worse about yourself because nothing will ever work [8:56:29 PM] Arxon: I fucking know that feeling but I can't take it anymore! [8:57:09 PM] Friend: ok [8:57:10 PM] Arxon: I can't even help myself and if you say "well your doing so much more than me" it is because I'm being forced and also you could fucking do it to! [8:57:30 PM] Arxon: I know you don't want people to tell you to go to school but just go to school! [8:57:39 PM] Friend: ok [8:57:55 PM] Arxon: I am going to go the fuck away now, sorry for blowing up at you [8:58:09 PM] Friend: ok [8:58:17 PM] Friend: goodnight
I am not very good at apologies, but I am picking up vibes from you that you are trying to fix/help her, and this is costing you a lot of energy and making you frustrated. If this is the case, take that feeling of needing to help your friend, and stomp it into the ground. It is harmful to invest strongly in other people like that(more so if you don't live together I think??). Because they will fail, sometimes repeatedly if their environment doesn't improve. And it may not improve for years, and it is a thing you cannot change. I've been there. And I promise, that just listening and having fun is enough. Being one less person pressuring them constantly helps. It will be slow, but trying to force it isn't going help your friend. As hard as it is, accept that this is where your friend is and let them lead in their recovery. You can't fix your friend's problems, but you can be a person who loves and is there for them. Hope this helps. I may come back when it is not super late and my brain is better xD
@rorleuaisen I am sorry it took me so long to respond, I've been thinking about this hard So I've known this friend since we were in middle school, and I dated her in freshman and sophomore year until she dumped me, and about a year after that I made a promise to myself that I wouldn't try to solve her problems anymore, because it was ruining our friendship and it made both of us stressed. After that we drifted apart, esp when I started dating someone else and after that person broke up with me I broke away from the entire friend group. We only got really close again a year after graduation, about. And I am really, really bad at communication. As a kid I started roleplaying because it was an easy thing to talk about, so I didn't have to have anything real to say or any actual personality. This friend and I roleplay together a lot, to the point where I often feels like she only cares about me because of that, though she says that isn't true. And I really, really don't want to try and solve her problems. But I feel like she wants me too, and that's probably wrong, but I feel pressured to roleplay with her all the time, or pressured to work on things with her all the time, and often if I can't do these things she gets really snide and "oh. I should have known. fine." at me, and I don't know what to do. I try to make reassuring noises at her but I am bad at it because it never works when vague reassuring noises are being made at me- I know how she feels and I don't know what to do, and I really don't want to be her crutch but I feel like I don't have a choice. tldr: you are right but I don't know how to not try and solve it
Hmm. That is... Yeah that sounds tough :c I know sometimes when people are upset or distressed that our brains only bring up the bad or the good, but what you've said here sounds like there isn't a strong/healthy reason to be friends. It sounds like you are growing apart and don't have a lot in common. It sounds like the thing that is keeping this relationship together is an unhealthy fixit dynamic. Maybe there is more and I'm missing it, or maybe you didn't bring it up cuz it didn't feel relevant. Either way, you are the one who needs to decide whether you want to keep this relationship and what you are willing to give to do that. I am not saying that this sounds like a horrible bad relationship or something. It looks to me like two people drifting apart. I've been there, and it hurts, but sometimes it is better to let go than to keep fighting for it. This is something for you to decide because I do not and cannot understand the full scope of your relationship. As for how to do the not fix it thing, I suggest adding the phrase "do you want me to listen or to help?" a little bit into conversations where she is talking about her problems. This will help you learn if and how she wants you in her life, as well as save you some effort for when she wants you to just listen. Also, it may help her to understand herself and what she wants. I challenge you to not help her when she says she just wants you to listen. I am a habitual helper so I know it is tough sometimes. Go ahead and think long and hard about this too :p I'm not bothered by the lack of response cuz it takes me a while to process things as well, so best of luck, and I will attempt to help if you need more assistance.
