I did not get CD, in part because I never talked about my ASPD traits/symptoms to anyone (either because I thought they were normal or because I was like "hmmm, telling people about this might end up with me being put in the hospital") until like, a very short while ago. not to mention that while I can definitely see where I could've been diagnosed with CD, at least starting around age 12/13 or so, my antisocial behaviors weren't really all that present prior to then, so I would never have been diagnosed ODD, I don't think. actually, according to my parents, there was an extremely drastic change in my behavior around age 12 or so, where I went from being like, a "good" kid with some ADHD problems, to.....well, I choose not to repeat what they have said, but suffice it to say it was a drastic change in behavior. so! initial questions I am curious about: do you have any other PDs besides ASPD? and also, of the traits of ASPD, which ones do you have? I'm curious as to where we differ on them--I know you don't have to have all of them to be diagnosed, and I don't have all of them, so.
I don't have any other PDs, but I have enough narcissistic traits to raise eyebrows without giving me an official diagnosis. Spoiler: CD traits. Aggression toward people and animals (I got in a lot of physical fights. Harm towards animals was mitigated by the shrink suggesting I get a snake, so I would have an acceptable excuse to kill small rodents instead of being a psycho for it.) Destruction of property Deceitfulness Theft (Minor) Serious violation of rules Spoiler: ASPD traits. Disregard for right and wrong Persistent lying or deceit to exploit others Being callous, cynical and disrespectful of others Using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or personal pleasure Arrogance, a sense of superiority and being extremely opinionated Recurring problems with the law, including criminal behavior Repeatedly violating the rights of others through intimidation and dishonesty Impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, aggression or violence Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others Unnecessary risk-taking or dangerous behavior with no regard for the safety of self or others Poor or abusive relationships Failure to consider the negative consequences of behavior or learn from them Being consistently irresponsible and repeatedly failing to fulfill work or financial obligations Spoiler: NPD traits. Lack of empathy Grandiose sense of self-importance (I would argue that this is warranted, but who knows!) Sense of entitlement Interpersonally exploitative Often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her Requires excessive admiration Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love Hahaha, wow, writing those all out is pretty depressing. I would say my impulse control is atypical in that family/therapists caught CD early enough that I was able to learn not to be a criminal. I did get caught a couple of times, but I've talked my way out of trouble before. I'm planning on law school, if that tells you anything about me. ;-)
hmmm, this is interesting to me! so I definitely had aggression towards people post "dramatic behavior change"--but I kicked my dog when I was younger (several times) and then had this like, weird revelation about the fact that hurting animals was apparently off-limits for me? but I 100% had aggression towards people. I think it was something about, like, "the animal does not understand why I, its caretaker and loved person, am doing this to it" but "people can 100% understand why I'm doing this, it's because I fucking hate them, and if they don't get it that's their problem because they have a big enough brain to understand". I also had destruction of property, deceitfulness (so much deceitfulness.), theft, and serious violation of rules. I....was very good at talking myself out of trouble, though. the only time I got in trouble for anything I did, ever, was when I shoved a desk on top of a kid in the middle of class, completely unprovoked. there wasn't much talking my way out of that one. but after that I learned to be sneakier, and also to not do things completely unprovoked, so. wrt to ASPD traits, these are mine: Spoiler: ASPD traits Disregard for right and wrong Persistent lying or deceit to exploit others Being callous, cynical and disrespectful of others Using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or personal pleasure Arrogance, a sense of superiority and being extremely opinionated Recurring problems with the law, including criminal behavior (I'm not super sure if I should bold this for 'criminal behavior sans law problems'? because. I've narrowly avoided law problems. this does not mean I do not have criminal behavior that continues to be a Thing to this day.) Repeatedly violating the rights of others through intimidation and dishonesty (used to have a lot of this; not so much any more.) Impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, aggression or violence Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others Unnecessary risk-taking or dangerous behavior with no regard for the safety of self or others Poor or abusive relationships Failure to consider the negative consequences of behavior or learn from them Being consistently irresponsible and repeatedly failing to fulfill work or financial obligations so it definitely seems to me like we would have experienced some things differently, and so far it seems like we have. curious question: is your ASPD something that has been present your whole life, or is it something that developed later? also, did you exploit specific people, or just anyone and everyone?
I was an angel until I was about 12, when a single traumatic event drastically changed my behavior. I withdrew completely from everyone around me, and pretty much didn't eat/sleep/speak for a couple of weeks. Towards the end of that period, I distinctly remember being like, "Enough is enough, get over it already." I acted out a little to keep people away from me. I started majorly acting out after a repeat of the traumatic event around age 13/14, again to keep people away. I have maybe two people I refrain from manipulating unless it's for their own good. One of them was my close friend and on-and-off hookup through high school, who I generally trust not to be an idiot. If I try any shit with them, they will deck me. It helps that we're not in regular contact since we've both left for university. The other is my current best friend, who is extremely bipolar and would not benefit from my meddling on the regular. If I need to interfere in his life, I usually go through his partner or offer help in such a way that he thinks it's his idea. He knows I'm antisocial, so I assume he treats my advice with stricter scrutiny. He knows it's for his own good, though. I'm fond of both of these people and I would rather not lose them. Everyone else is generally fair game, but I typically need a motive to bother. Even if it's just "Oh, I'm lazy, I don't want to do this myself," I'll need a motive. Spoiler: Tangent. I find myself being really polite to strangers and acquaintances, and more rude/crude with friends. Maybe this is code-switching to mimic people that are comfortable with me, but my neighbor in the dorms is a sweet little uwu-type girl that hugs me when she's stressed and almost cries with gratitude when I make her chai. So, of course, I make her chai to keep her indebted to me in case I need a favor down the road. My roommate (good-naturedly) calls me a slut when I dress up, so I find myself doing it back. Do you find yourself being nicer to people you don't like as much?
huh. I mean, I'm sorry for the traumatic event, but that aside, your case actually sounds somewhat similar to mine--although I still can't pinpoint what exactly caused my behavior to change or when exactly it changed. I have...I think four people I refrain from actively trying to manipulate? three are my partners, and....well. I guess I do meddle on occasion if I think it will help, but outside of that I refrain, and even then I try to keep it to a minimum because I actually like them (rare occurrence) and don't want them to dislike me/stop trusting me/stop wanting to be with me because of me meddling. the other one is Seebs. I refrain from trying there because Seebs is not exactly easily manipulated. as far as needing a motive goes, I get that. ....the only issue with me is that a lot of the time my motive is just "I don't like this person" or "I am angry with this person". this is a problem because I am often angry with people, and I dislike.....lots of people. so many people. Spoiler: re: tangent it's not even just that I'm nicer to people I don't like as much--I'm nicer to anyone who doesn't know me especially well, to strangers and acquaintances and family that's not my parents and....basically anyone that's not Seebs or my three partners, or exactly one other person who I enjoy talking to (I didn't mention them in the non-manipulation area because. well. I definitely attempt manipulation of them at times if it's helpful to them or useful to me). I'm still nice to my partners and the other non-Seebs person some of the time, because I care about them and so I attempt to sympathize and help and all that jazz (it's exhausting and I don't do it for anyone else, basically), it's just that I'm also inclined to be ruder with them or make "inappropriate" jokes or even yell at them to get something through their head, or talk about things that would generally be "inappropriate" to discuss with others. I....also have a tendency to swear more openly around them. I'm not really sure why this is for me--maybe feeling a bit more comfortable with them or code-switching or something, idk.
HAHA, OH, WELL... Generally I'm nicer to women than I am to men, because I'm a big mean man-hating lesbian. I have this one shirt that says CULT LEADER across the boobs, and it's way small on me because I wear a medium but I ordered it from China, so it's tiny. So it ends up being really slutty, because I have an hourglass build and a very large bust. So, this total stranger making conversation with my chest asks me "Is that real?" one time. Me: Yes. Him: How do I join? Me: First you have to give me all your worldly possessions. Then you have to be prepared to die for me. Never saw him again. It's a pretty small campus. I see most people a few times a week, at least.
.......all right but that's an amazing response that you had. I am.......uncomfortable with men, generally, because trauma, yay! but my response is generally to just avoid the hell out of them. if I interact with them and they ping my 'nope' buttons even slightly, I have a tendency to be irritable then, but I try to be nice first. which 100% counts as being nice to people. I made an effort. it is not my fault they pinged my nope buttons.
Usually, especially if I am with other people, I'll try to weird them away from me instead of outright rejecting them because that's how you get shot. Like, if he asks me what kind of music I like, I'll say, "I'm really into this Turkmenistani garage electro-folk band right now. They actually bring in a throat singer and have him chant for the bass, it's suuuper grassroots." Just talk nonsense at them and nine times out of ten they'll go away.
I've been good friends with several people with BPD. I can obviously only speak for myself and within the limits of my experience, but I felt like it was a much more holistic regard for a person than an investment in their surface traits and behaviors. My feelings definitely did not hinge on what they had done for me recently. As for my stance on trying a variety of identities and discarding them: people talk about personas as if being a different person is the same as no longer being yourself. It's still you. It will always be you. You literally have nothing but yourself to work with. I find it very hard to get a useful idea of what something is actually like from materials like diagnostic criteria lists. I definitely can't get a feel for something like a personality disorder without meeting and interacting with actual people who have that disorder. A feel is obviously not the same thing as an understanding, but it's at least a start. (A true understanding of a personality disorder I don't have may not actually be possible, I don't know.) I'd actually be very interested to meet someone with diagnosed HPD, because as far as I'm aware, I never have. Good luck with your search for mental health answers. I don't know you personally, but my general feeling is that when someone thinks there's something wrong, there probably is. It may or may not be what they thought it was, but it's probably not nothing.
ive.... at least suspected i have bpd for a little over year, since i discovered it was a Thing, because i was relating to the posts so hard sometimes people say that something i just said was characteristic of me and whenever someone says that i get ?????? because it reminds me that i have a personality, apparently. i have form answers for "what's your favorite" because because got weird when i kept not being able to answer but idk... i don't? know if i have a personality because i dont know what it feels like i dont feel like a person a lot of the time, just a bunch of reactions to other people. when im interacting with someone i have a personality but when they leave and im alone i feel like im just a shell my mental health is... better than it was last year when i was probably splitting constantly over people and things so idk it's not a severe now which makes me think maybe i dont have bpd? but i remember when it was happening i was Really Symptomatic and basically convinced that i was borderline. now im not so sure and i dont wanna insult anyone by claiming something that isn't mine, and im worried about faking and yeah. abandonment issues are my Big Thing. and like obvs i get the issues with armchair diagnosing but on a casual level can i also ask if this seems reasonable, based on what you know of me? i don't know people here super well but yeah. im.. apprehensive to bring this up to my therapist because i currently have some Cool And Good transition related things happening soon-ish and i dont want to jeopardize that.
So since I'm only 15, I'm not going to get diagnosed with anything. But I did go through the traits for BPD and I did find a lot of stuff in there I agreed with. Also I don't know how much it matters, but my grandfather on my mom's side was bipolar and my grandfather on my dad's side had Asperger's. I don't know how much of those brainweird genes got passed on to me (at the very least Asperger's did) or if it would even make a difference in my likelihood to have a personality disorder. I don't think it's likely at all for me to get diagnosed with anything due to my age, but I will ask my therapist about it.
Are personality disorders heavily comorbid? I think until now I've been imagining them like personality types, where you have one to the exclusion of all the others. Obviously this was off-base.
I won't armchair diagnose, but just based on what I've seen of you and what you've said here, it sounds borderline traits at least to me. But traits are easy to hide over the internet and I certainly won't go trawling the holler closet for a vent thread of yours. Autism spectrum and BPD can absolutely be co-morbid, if that helps you any. I'm 98% sure I have both, but I definitely had a genetic pre-disposition towards BPD. As far as I've heard they absolutely can be co-morbid, I'm just not sure to how often that happens. Cluster B's and C's are very often co-morbid with each other, depression, and anxiety disorders, though.
As far as I know, Cluster Bs aren't usually with each other, just because diagnostic criteria tends to prevent that, but a running theory with the old therapist was that I had both a Cluster B (BPD) and a Cluster C (OCPD). (Turns out that second one might just be atsimu, but we'll see. Not been formally diagnosed with either, for the second thing. Pretty conclusive on BPD though.)
actually, as far as I'm aware, Cluster Bs have a higher rate of being together than certain others, depending on which personality disorder you are focusing on. for instance, ASPD and BPD have more likelihood of being comorbid than STPD or schizoid personality disorder and BPD! .....I do also have STPD, but basically what I'm saying is, my combo ASPD and BPD is more likely than my combo STPD and BPD.
It's funny cause I was told it was far more likely I had BPD and DPD than BPD and HPD* :P I'm starting to think the answer depends on a) who you talk to and b) what symptoms you're displaying the most * but let's face it, I'm fucked up and probably have all three
