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Creating a sporking organization.

Discussion in 'Make It So' started by Athol Magarac, Jul 3, 2018.

  1. vegacoyote

    vegacoyote dog metaphores and pedanticism

    Point of order:

    Greallan has acknowledged, ongoing issues with reading comprehension. I don’t think she was intending to imply that @thegrimsqueaker is schizophrenic, even though word-salad-ing can be a symptom of schizophrenia.

    I can tell you from personal experience that the same symptoms that lead to producing word salad can cause you to see it where it isn’t, as well.
     
    • Agree x 4
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  2. anthers

    anthers sleepy

    is this a quote from something or does eucalyptus actually o that?
     
    • Agree x 2
  3. LadyNighteyes

    LadyNighteyes Wicked Witch of the Radiant Historia Fandom

    It does.
     
    • Informative x 6
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  4. anthers

    anthers sleepy

    What the fuck Australia
     
    • Agree x 8
    • Winner x 1
  5. TheOwlet

    TheOwlet A feathered pillow filled with salt and science

    Australia: where even the trees are out for blood.
     
    • Agree x 7
    • Like x 2
  6. chaoticArbiter

    chaoticArbiter an actual shiny eevee (destroyer of worlds)

    hello I would like to order some eucalyptus trees for planting in particular places
     
    • Winner x 6
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  7. palindromordnilap

    palindromordnilap Well-Known Member

    ... So, I had already heard of this, but I just remembered we have tons of eucalyptus trees in Corsica. They were introduced as part of an elaborate malaria eradication thing. With all the forest fires here, how did something like this never happen?
     
    • Witnessed x 2
  8. TheOwlet

    TheOwlet A feathered pillow filled with salt and science

    probably because of all the forest fires. it's burning down so often it doesn't build up?

    ETA: alternative: NO LIVING WITNESS
     
    • Like x 2
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  9. Athol Magarac

    Athol Magarac I prefer reading posts without a lot of topics.

    Other people do have it worse, but this is what I am going through. It's like trying to explain that you're having trouble because you've been working for 14 hours without meals and someone yells at you for complaining because there are kids starving in Africa.

    I'm not the greatest at theory of mind, but I have had training in the basics. Whenever my husband is looking for something, I ask him what he's looking for. I move things around constantly, and don't expect him to remember where something is even if it is in the last place he saw it because that's rare enough for him not to bother trying.

    What I need to work on is expecting someone to know something after I've told them about it.

    -I've since taken Hanlon's razor to the hazing belief, but they have to have their heads pretty far up their asses to make stupidity work. The most generous explanation I can think of is that they didn't realize it could get that bad, and then got too offended when I tried to tell them what was wrong to actually listen to what I was pointing out.

    It could also be their own theory of mind problem. "I wouldn't complain about how to do this, and I'm a good writer. This person who is complaining must be a bad writer."

    I'm willing to believe that only one person saw only one of my complaints, but I noticed something while looking for something else and it just pinged. Neshomeh said something that indicated seeing one of my posts about having trouble with the prompts. She changed it to the incorrect language that I didn't like the prompts. That indicates that she at least half-read my explanation and it sounds like she didn't want to discuss the problem that she caused.

    -It was more like I was hurt and they hurt me when trying to explain that I was hurt, and I wish that lashing out wasn't the only thing that I couldn't keep under control. I get it, my pain doesn't matter, other's pain does. I was wrong not to suffer in silence.

    -It isn't about agreement at all. Compromise works on me.

    - i cant understand them because they are talking like this, and talking like this is really hard to parse iirc. they really need to use capital letters and speak in shorter sentences because its really hard to read a bunch of bunched up text which cant be backscanned across a sentence for a topic.
     
  10. Aondeug

    Aondeug Ferdinand von Aegir

    i love that we brought them to southern california for railroad ties

    you know

    always on fire in the summer southern california

    and the motherfuckers don't even have the decency to grow big enough for railroad ties out here!
     
    • Witnessed x 6
    • Like x 2
  11. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident POTSie potato.

    I think we may accidentally be veering off topic here.
     
    • Agree x 2
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  12. Aondeug

    Aondeug Ferdinand von Aegir

  13. vegacoyote

    vegacoyote dog metaphores and pedanticism

    I mean, if you wanna go there, something like half this thread should probably be in Fine Imported Drama rather that Make It So.

    ... that was not a request or suggestion, btw. moving threads around in huge chunks is highly disorienting.
     
  14. TheMockingCrows

    TheMockingCrows Resident POTSie potato.

    I'm very confused.
     
    • Witnessed x 2
  15. Aondeug

    Aondeug Ferdinand von Aegir

    I've been confused for like two weeks straight.
     
    • Agree x 7
    • Witnessed x 1
  16. UnknownQuantity

    UnknownQuantity Who the fuck is this

    This shit? Cut it the fuck out. People have said, repeatedly, that your pain does matter. It's what you did and are blaming on the pain that's the problem, and the fact that I've yet to see you give an apology that wasn't soaked in bullshit.

    My dad has cptsd and has done things like punch people in the throat for sneaking up on him. It's an automatic reaction, because he's been literally stabbed in the back. But you know what? People are allowed to go "yo what the hell dude" and if he just walks off or blames them he's the asshole. He can explain why he did it ("please don't come up from my blind spots, I respond poorly") but if he doesn't apologize he's the asshole. Even if he didn't mean to hurt someone. Even if it was a reflex. Even if the person knew he was jumpy and snuck up on him intentionally, to fuck with him. He may point out that it was goddamn stupid of them and they should have expected it because let's be real my dad is kind of a dick, but he would apologize for throat-punching because that's a disproportionate reaction.

    Trampling all over their boundaries and sockpuppeting to keep interacting when they've made it perfectly clear they don't want to? That's a disproportionate reaction. It going on for four sorry three years? That's sustained. That's not "oops I got mad and did something I regret," that requires premeditation and intent.
     
    • Agree x 19
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  17. vegacoyote

    vegacoyote dog metaphores and pedanticism

    I think the problem here is that Hanlon’s Razor is insufficient to describe all of human behavior.

    Hanlon’s Razor only presents two possible motivations for an given action: Malice and Stupidity.

    This is intended as an oversimplification for humorous effect, rather than a description of all possible causes for shitty outcomes. To actually apply it to a situation for analytical purposes creates what is known as a false dichotomy, to whit:

    There is more to human motivation than just Malice and Stupidity.

    Motivations I think were likely behind the PPC’s initial choice to ban you:

    Confusion
    Defensiveness
    Fear
    Feeling offended
    Frustration with inability to communicate
    More confusion
    Necessary community conflict management

    ... Judgement as to whether or not someone is a good writer usually has to do directly with having read that person’s writing.

    An inability to follow directions does not preclude one from being a competent wordsmith.

    However, an inability to follow directions could indicate that someone would be unable to productively engage in a collaborative art project, such as the PPC.

    No one here has said this but you, and a number of us have directly contracted it.

    Your pain does matter, and you are not required to suffer in silence.

    To say otherwise would be a damaging, unproductive thing to say, and I wish you would stop ascribing those thoughts to us.

    Is that something that you actually believe? Or do you just expect us to say it? Because we’re not, and we haven’t, and we won’t, no matter how many times you tell us that that’s what we’re saying.

    Your feelings matter as much as anyone else’s. Not more, not less. You are allowed to feel, and you are allowed to talk about those feelings in an appropriate venue.

    What you are not allowed is to contact people who have told you to stop contacting them.

    Contacting someone is an action, not a feeling. Bypassing a ban is an action, not a feeling. Lashing out is an action, not a feeling.

    You get to choose the actions you take in response to your feelings. I know you have issues with impulse control, and I sympathize, but this is something that can be practiced.

    It’s not easy, and it will probably require help from a good councilor, but the more you practice controling impulses, and channeling your emotions into something positive instead of harmful, the more of your own choices you will take back.

    ... And I’m not sure how helpful this even is, because if your reading comp is acting up right now, or I wasn’t clear enough, this might not even make sense, and that leaves aside whether it’s something you agree with enough for it to be useful.

    Nnn. Oh well. *crooked yellow I Tried star.*
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    • Agree x 9
  18. Athol Magarac

    Athol Magarac I prefer reading posts without a lot of topics.

    If your dad tells someone "hey, sorry I ended up punching you in the throat, I told you not to sneak up on me" is that soaked in bullshit because he refused to apologize for deliberately punching them in the throat? Maybe he should lie to include "overreaction" in his apology? According to someone in the PPC, he shouldn't have let himself be in that situation in the first place because he knew that there's a non-zero chance that he might punch someone.

    The sockpuppet went way beyond my intentions because I was advised to keep it going by someone who was working at cross-purposes to what I wanted. If I could have seen another way to get things in balance again I would have.

    Tangent: I think that the problem is that while everyone including me agrees that I'm being selfish about this, we can't agree on the jerk level. My last message could be a means to a solution that lets everyone move on. Until I was invited to say something, I was always a lurking threat. If I wanted to be a supreme jerk, I could have rejected even that offer and told them I was going to sock again, -- which would have left them on alert until I decided to act again, which would make leaving them alone REALLY cruel. Even now they're waiting for my last message, and people here are providing a distraction from getting that done-- with the constantly trying to convince me that I am a jerk when I already accept that.
     
  19. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Yes. That's a complete non-sequitur and totally irrelevant to the conversation they were having. So, Gricean Maxims come into play: They have to try to guess why you suddenly changed to this other topic, and their guesses were probably wrong. But it's reasonable for them to try to guess and to assume that there's a connection, but actually there wasn't.

    I haven't seen so much claims that they're "innocent" as just that nothing they've done comes even close to justifying the scale of retaliation and bad behavior directed at them for it.

    I guess it would depend on the specific thing. There are things you can reasonably legitimately ask people to stop; for instance, if you are running a private site (as opposed to, say, a thing run as a public service by the government), you can ask people to stop using it, and that's reasonable, because no one has any right to your private property. On the other hand, if you're talking publically about things, and other people have opinions about what you say, they're allowed to state their opinions.

    Well, yes. That's part of why I think it's not hazing.

    Who told you that "people get rejected just to see how they react", and in what context? Were they asserting specifically that the PPC people do this, or just that this is a thing that has happened in some context somewhere?

    I don't know the specifics of the case you're talking about where you were told you were wrong when you were right, so I can't comment on that usefully.

    But none of this sounds like "hazing".

    That's quite possible, but it's not hazing. It might not be the healthiest thing, but... This is a community built around organized group mockery of other people. Why would you expect any aspect of how they do things socially to be healthy?
     
    • Agree x 5
  20. thegrimsqueaker

    thegrimsqueaker 28 Moribunding Mouse Aggravates the Angry Assholes

    there are more than half a dozen threads from the last month and a half alone of you having trouble communicating w/ everyone who tried to talk to you. have you ever considered that one of the problems might be that you're really bad at communication?

    "I don't have a theory of mind problem, THEY do!"

    the "I was wrong not to suffer in silence" thing is manipulative bs and it needs to stop. no one has said that your pain doesn't matter. what people have been saying is that your method of dealing w/ that pain is incredibly inappropriate and abusive.

    I v much doubt anyone here is going to compromise on harassment. there really isn't much to say about it beyond "harassment and sockpuppeting are never ok"

    there are plugins and extensions available for just about every browser that can help w/ reading issues and formatting. I know for a fact chrome and firefox have sections in their list of extensions for disability access and accommodation. if you're having trouble, I highly recommend checking the accessibility extensions available for your browser.
     
    • Agree x 9
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