Hey, @Greallan, just popping in to say that I would prefer any detailed discussion about me or my past to go into the TCHGB thread, or my vent thread if you feel really inclined (but I'd highly recommend against that). Saying 'the fight with Etansel' is fine. Saying anything more than that, being that you were a core participant, is not and will be seen as you trying to drag it elsewhere behind my back. Thanks!!!! C:
i DO NOT think you shold do this. theres a big difference between the most famous badfic ever and some rando you think got a bunch of nasty reviews. penumbra said you could use theirs and it might be more useful anyway if your not tearing into something you think is the worst ever, cause your writing is not the worst ever and most people aren't gonna tell you it is
I feel like there's a relevant quote I came across a little while ago, specifically wrt to sporking as a concept and method: 'if your critique makes someone feel like they never want to write again, you have failed as a critiquer because you extinguished someone's desire to create' Sporking is VASTLY more likely to do THAT instead of provide any drive to do better. Even if someone is asking for concrit, they usually don't look for a sporking because that's fundamentally different and likes to enhance the negative and as many people have already pointed out, negative critique without telling you what's actually going RIGHT is damn near useless.
That's a good response. One of the problems is, if all I see is a gentle poke, I'm not going to think of broken bones. But also, it's important to know what the complaint is. I think that's a really good insight, actually. In general, most people care much more about being heard than they do about any other outcome of a thing. And I think that's been a bit of a feedback loop, because then when you talk about the thing, if you don't feel like people are hearing you, that feels awful and makes you mad. So when you talk about the people at PPC bullying you, or whatever, people try to map the things they can observe to "bullying", and they say "that... doesn't look like bullying to me?" And then you don't feel heard again. But if your real problem is that you didn't feel listened-to, well. That's quite possibly accurate, that happens a lot! That's also, I think, a big part of why people have been reacting negatively to you; sometimes your responses are weird in a way that makes it easy for people to feel like you're not hearing them. I think you might be a lot happier with your social interactions with people if you spent less of your social time picking up habits and behaviors from people who are specifically focused on being cruel. Because in a lot of your interactions here, you seem to be trying specifically to be confrontational and so on, and I think you've developed a model that That Is How Social Works, and while it certainly can be, I find that most people will react that way if you indicate a preference for it, but will otherwise be much happier to have a less confrontational interaction. Honestly, that's at least roughly within the scope of triggers, some people with triggers can keep controlled for a bit before the thing really hits, etcetera. My guess is that you're especially sensitive to not-being-heard. That's not an unheard of sensitivity. And that would make the thing extremely upsetting in a way that might not be obvious to people, and if they're trying to understand it in terms of visible aggression, or whatever, they're not going to see it. So they're not doing x-rays of your bones because they think you're complaining about bleeding.
"But yes, it feels like they felt that every problem was malicious." Basically I was trying to say that they thought I was acting in bad faith. I still flip-flop about whether they were acting in bad faith or were really not seeing the problem. As far as sending them a message? That was something that they told me I could do. There's some point at which standing for principles overwhelms whether or not it's seen as right. Manipulation is not my go-to, and not what I was doing here... Unless you're like them and think that any form of convincing is manipulation. In that case, I've manipulated someone into accepting a piece of green paper in exchange for an old toy. Long explanation but to save detail until I've decided whether or not to go into it... I'm still seeing the disconnect between how people expect me to act and how I am treated. No details about Etan smacks of not being allowed to defend myself. I'll think about coming back to it. I'll try again at therapy even though sofar I've made less progress at making a therapist believe in any of my problems than I have in convincing you(group) that it was A Big Deal To Me. Can you accept that the psych hold thing is something that I've been through but care less about than the thing you're dismissing? Their actions caused my second psych hold.
I'll look into @Penumbra and @unknownanonymous first. I just know a story each by those other two authors that I am sure that I could concrit.
Okay, this is getting approved because you're still not discussing the conversation itself, which is still within the bounds of what Etansel okayed, but do you realize how much of a threat this reads as? Because it reads as a lot of threat. Consider, instead, just dropping that corner of the conversation entirely, and not coming back to it, period. You don't have to go back and justify everything that happened in that thread, and get people to agree that actually your actions were fine. You can just talk about other things, and then, people aren't going to read you as being aggressive and threatening about returning to this topic someone asked you to leave alone. And maybe other people keep coming back to topics you wish they'd drop, but that still doesn't mean that it's 100% fine to return to a very personal topic that the other person has asked you multiple times to drop. I'm not interested in comparing degrees of who's-been-wronged, but veiled threats like this are almost guaranteed to go over very, very badly.
Details about me when both the other people were purposeful and dutiful in avoiding calling me to this thread smacks of not being able to defend myself because prior to coming in telling you not to, I was not a participant in this. So that's very much not me silencing you, and more you not being a hypocrite. And the last time I participated in anything outside of TCHGB, you told me I was a salty victim who was upset that you wouldn't let me believe that I was the only one in wrong, even after I explained that she used those same tactics against me, and got mad whenever I looked for an outside opinion. So, you talk about me and what you did, you do it to my face. Not behind my back.
You created sockpuppets to evade a ban. At that point, you were acting in bad faith and people have explained repeatedly why ban evasion is not acceptable behaviour. Additionally, if how you've been acting here is anything like how you acted there? No fucking shit they thought you were acting in bad faith, ban evasion aside; your behaviour has been pinging as being in bad faith here too, and people have tried to explain why so that if it's accidental, you can figure out how to stop doing it. And yet. You have not stopped. You have, if anything, doubled down harder on the behaviours that feel like you're acting in bad faith, and refused to listen to anyone who goes "hey, don't do that because X and Y" or tried to justify your actions even when being told that trying to justify them makes you look worse. When you are told to stop doing a thing, your response seems to be "well screw you, I'm going to do the thing anyways, and here's a textwall about why I should totally be allowed to do the thing and why I didn't mean to hurt anyone so that should retroactively mean no one got hurt". This is not the correct response. The correct response would be "I'm sorry, I won't do it again" followed by not doing the thing any more. Instead, you go with veiled threats and an utter refusal to acknowledge that boundaries are something other people get to have. And then you're just so very shocked that people respond badly to this.
...so you're flip-flopping between dismissing their points as ignorance or animus. you've yet to say anything that makes me think you understand why anyone would have a problem w/ anything you've ever said, and that's worrisome af also, as turtleDove said, you absolutely were acting in bad faith by evading the ban you've bullied them into this by sockpuppeting and boundary stomping. the fact that this last one is allowed doesn't negate the fact that everything since your first ban has happened despite you being banned the way people act around you has a lot to do w/ how you've behaved. this isn't bullying, this is people trying to protect themselves from someone who appears to have no regard for boundaries please do not this whole thing is making my skin crawl, and idk how to words why, so I'm just going to leave it at
My actions in 2016 do not excuse their actions in 2014. I didn't used to be like this, but I got badly hurt by meekly accepting what was happening to me. Now that I'm acting in a way to protect myself from being hurt like that and people keep telling me that I should just meekly accept the harm. "Look at that pathetic loser, trying to cover his face with his arms instead of letting them kick his teeth in." I respect that they got insulted when I tried to tell them that I was getting angry at what they were doing. That's why I bottled it up the best I could. On their end, they focused on being insulted rather than what their actions were doing to me. This is about 2014, well before ban evasion... How about a story... Sometime in Highschool, we had to take photos and mount them on a posterboard for the difference between good infrastructure and bad infrastructure. Mine wasn't quite ready on-time because I used black and white film, but I was able to hand it in before grading and get leniency for that. She looked at it and said "It needs to be labelled" and since I had time, I took a pen and wrote a short description of what the photograph was of and where it was taken. She later complained that I hadn't marked what was good infrastructure and what was bad. I can't remember what my grade was, but I think I'm remembering it because of how much effort it took to get the photos. (IIRC, my car almost got stuck while trying to back out of a muddy access road onto a busy street.) Overlaying how the PPC was acting towards me onto that story... "You didn't label it with good infrastructure vs bad infrastructure like I told you to. You're deliberately disrespecting me by not following instructions." "Hey, your instructions are confusing." "You're just making excuses to cover up how you're a bad learner." Does my reaction to them negate how they're finally doing what they should have done in the first place? People seem to act like my reactions negate what they did.
Barring secret hidden interactions that somehow disappeared from the PPC's records, I have not seen any behavior from them that is in need of excusing.
you are the only one talking about what happened before the ban evasion. you're the only one who cares what happened before the ban evasion. had you not done the ban evasion, you would likely not be permabanned now. everyone else is focused on the ban evasion bc it was a dramatic escalation and a series of things that were unambiguously Not Ok, and you keep trying to defend it. it really doesn't help that the incidents you're citing as the cause for your harassment campaign are all, afaict, times where you were the one that hurt other people, or made other people uncomfortable. but even if you were perfectly innocent and banned for no reason, your response to that ban was incredibly inappropriate, and is on its own grounds for a permaban, bc it's unambiguously bad behavior. so yeah, everyone else is more focused on the blatant boundary stomping and harassment rather than the miscommunication that started it all. whether that's "right" or "wrong" is largely, if not entirely, irrelevant. miscommunications suck, but they happen and can be dealt w/, so long as all parties trust that they're able to communicate respectfully and civilly. the moment you started sockpuppeting, people stopped trusting that you could communicate respectfully and civilly, so actually fixing the initial miscommunication isn't going to happen. you lost any chance of that the first time you started sockpuppeting, and that's something we can't help you fix. no one can unburn a bridge, and building a new one would take years and interest from both parties, which is incredibly unlikely at this point. but we can help you stop harassing other people, if you listen and accept that harassment is bad and that what you've been doing to the ppc since that initial ban is not ok. you've spent your entire time here blaming your behavior on other people. you've argued over and over that you had to harass the ppc, that their actions made you harass them. that's incredibly alarming and abusive logic. you are the only one who can control your own actions. no one forced you to harass the ppc. that was a choice you made of your own free will. you had the choice to not do this at every point, and you chose to continue harassing and hurting people. that's way more concerning to a lot of people here than a miscommunication that no one here was a party to. fake edit: before you say that no one here has been listening to you, please understand that yes they have. it's just that most people here don't agree w/ you, which is v different.
Or perhaps they focused on taking care of themselves rather than trying to coddle the feelings of someone who had hurt them. Someone you have hurt is not required to focus on your hurt, ever. This sounds like you are expecting them to take care of your hurt, when they have their own wounds to lick.
https://technodann.github.io/PPC-board-2.0/archive/2014/07b.html#post-100169 She completely ignored that I told her that she pressed my berserk button and explained why it was my fault. I had more to criticize her about, but I was predicting that I would just get yelled at some more. So if I get insulted when someone says that I'm bothering them, I'm not required to care about them? Awesome. I was going to settle for dispelling the bad blood between me and the PPC, but you've given a blessing on terrorizing them for jollies.
the bolded part is literally false. Like. Literally sandwiching the post are acknowledgements of your pain, can you like please at least make an effort to actually read what people say? Your "berserk" button being pressed does not absolve you of things you've done. It may explain them to a degree, but it doesn't mean you magically did not lash out at people anymore. And it also doesn't give you a carte blanche to say untrue things, whether you mean to twist things around or just got confused.
getting real tired of how you keep acting like there's no difference between telling a jerk to go away and harassing someone for years after they tell you to go away
