does anyone want to kungfu an uproar in heaven

having now read most of the rulebook pertaining to lore, i can officially say tumblr is an often cruel joke played by a team of spiteful divinities in Office Bonds :/

resist urge to make a weed joke resist urge to make a weed joke resist urge to make a weed joke

so...divinities can remember parts of their past lives? or was that a special case?

other questions since my last post:

• can a divinity switch from one office to another? like from inspiration to deaths?
• are the offices inspired by homestuck classpects at all? cause i can easily assign almost all of them to an office
• do you have to stick to the subsection of your office that is associated with your incarnation? or can you be put anywhere in your office but most of one type of incarnation fit into one section?
• also, chapter 1 has a different list of Offices than one of the later chapters (i think it was cast of characters). is that because of certain bits not being complete yet or was the official list changed but not fixed to reflect that on one of the chapters?
• are aspects something like a list you pick from and modify to your character's specific history or something you yourself make up for the character? im getting the impression its totally freeform
• also is there any more info on devils? the section in chapter 1 is kind of short

i think i have some character ideas but im honestly terrified by the character creation in this game. its not BAD character creation, just more freedom than im used to so im caught somewhere between spoiled for choice and directionless. like TOO MANY POSSIBILITIES and WHERE DO I EVEN START. cause normally between the setting and the skills and the narrow confines of the character options i get an idea of what i want to do with that and see how i can fit it in mechanically. this? no clue. im either too unfamiliar with the kind of setting or temporarily out of brain juice or SOMETHING to have an idea other than basically copying my OCs into this world, and even that im not sure how to get down in aspect form

so im kind of scared im going to hold everyone else up during character creation :[

 

Ok...So remembering past lives. Everyone can remember at least portions of it. For many though it's very small things or, like Tori, it's less exact names and specifics and more...fuzzy rememberances of images and feelings. He acutely remembers how terrifying Hell was and what parts of it bothered him, but he can't really word the specifics of this too well. Jame remembers A LOT more about it. Mechanically this is expressed by her past aspect being her good mode. So the highest amount of skill mods she can get are coming from this thing she remembers scarily well. Tori meanwhile is doing better than most with remembering but it's not as good as his sister's. So his is fair. Better than average, but still not good.

Divinities can switch or be fired from Offices from what I recall. Though generally you stick with the one forever. So like Abhaya USED to work for Years but she was fired. She doesn't work for anyone now. Save the Zhu Baije.

I'm not sure if the Offices were inspired by the Aspects from Homestuck but honestly the answer is "probably". They're probably a mix of actual Chinese and Buddhist shit, like how the Office Breaths is very much modeled on how the religions of the setting conceive of self and soul. But they're also likely based on Aspects because well a lot of shit in the setting is inspired by Homestuck. The idea of Heaven having offices for everything from the rain to answering prayers is legit Chinese religion and folklore being played straight though. Like some dragon got in trouble for not bringing the rains on time and was sentenced to execution for ignoring his job from the Jade Emperor.

As for discrepancies with the Office lists...The more lore based one in chapter 1 is, to my knowledge, the most up to date and accurate one. I know for a fact that Years might still be called Fates and that Shadows might not be mentioned at all in some parts of the book.

Also yes the aspects are entirely freeform. You make these based off the little list of general rules I gave earlier to fit with your character. But otherwise this is all you. So I sat down and was like. You know what. Jame and Tori REALLY have a thing. Like. A BIG THING. They need that mechanically present somehow. Let's make it an aspect, so it can be used mechanically and narratively! And so We're Like Izanami And Izanagi, You And I or whatever its exact wording is was born. Mechanically speaking this means that Jame and Tori can invoke their relationship in situations where it can be argued that their thing might be advantageous in some fashion. Basically through sheer force of their horrid, fucked up, not really functioning in any sane right love they can force reality to bend to their whims. So yeah no I guess no sane god can jump that gap but fuck you they kidnapped my stupid useless excuse for a brother AND I AM GETTING HIM WHATEVER REALITY SAYS. However it also means that I, the gm, can compel them to take a disadvantage or failure. So basically forced narrative failures. BUT. In exchange you get a fate point which you can use to invoke as aspect.

There's no more currently existing info on devils, no. Mechanically they have the most freeform creation process too. So. Yeah.

And if character shit is hard...then stop thinking about mechanics? Who is the character as a person? What's their life like? What do they believe in? Make that stuff first and then come up with the mechanics that let you realize this in the gameworld. Then sit down and think about these five things for the aspects:

• What kind of deity are you? What Office do you work for and what's your rank? How do you feel about this?
• What are you most attached to? What is the thing that, beyond all else, you cannot bear to give up?
• What were you in your past life? What happened to you? How do you feel about it?
• Where are you right now in life? How do you feel about it? Are you happy? Are you not?
• Where do you want to be in the future? What do you want to do? How badly do you want this?

Thinking about and narrowing these five things down to little catchy phrases like I Am Destruction As Dance will get your aspects. To make things easier on people wording wise he suggests a format of "I was, I am, I will be" for the past, present, and future ones. Aspects are kind of weird and hard to get used to, but when you get a handle on it they're really neat things. They basically take your character ideas and traits and makes those a mechanical reality. So now Jame and Tori don't just have an awkward romance. They have an awkward romance that can now be used mechanically. Like itself. Their love is now a mechanic because I made it one.

Then once you've got your aspects roughly down we get you your skills. One of these sets of skills, modes, will come from your incarnation. The other two you either make up yourself or pick from one of the standard, premade modes. If you make a mode you just pick any nine skills from the list and give it a name like Apple Donut Mode. Think about these in relation to your past, present, and future aspects. What kind of skills could we say you realistically have from these things? Like Jame's experience with Gerridon was as a martial arts student/slave. So for that she gets mode violence, which is a package of nine skills all related to hurting shit.

After that you can make your special effects. You've got to pick two at the start but you can have as many as five. Think of this as like your chance to make up skills and special abilities from more structured games. So we saw on Tori's page that he has Dream Diary, which lets him use a different skill that he's better at when making skill checks with one specific skill he isn't so good at. But he's got to have writing materials and the time and quiet to write.

I'll also be around to talk about your things with and I can help you write some of them if you need.

 

eep 8<

...this is completely alien to me. i feel like a toddler given a shotgun after asking about playing paintball. not that that's what's actually going on. im just...worldview shifting?

normally its "what kind of character can you make that fits within theses mechanics?" and this is...completely inverted from that. all "what mechanics can you make to fit theses characters?"

im not used to that in the slightest (might also be some brainweird that's making it more difficult than it should be)

so yeah i think this was one of the big pieces i was missing, that its character design CREATING mechanics, not selecting/tweaking preexisting mechanics. im...going to have to think that part over and try to wrap my head around it.

fuck i knew i had to be missing a thing. i'll go back and re-read the character creation bit with the new info you gave me and see if i can handle it better the second time around

 

Yeah it's pretty much the reverse of how it works in a lot of other systems. Which is part of why Fate Core is my favorite rpg system. I like how character and narrative focused it is, and how mechanics are things that the players and GM make themselves through play. It's basically what I always really wanted out of a system ethic and focus wise.

It's ok if it seems off or if it takes you a bit to get a handle on. It's honestly really weird.

 

okay so read a few things, thought over some stuff, and poked around a bit. now i got some more questions:

• the discord thing looks like its got voice and text, which will we be using? ie. do i need a microphone?
• are the things like dice rolls and tokens going to be on a digital system we can all see or will it be handled individually on good faith? ie. do i need to dig out some of my dice?
• would it be better for me to come up with some very loose character ideas for a few characters and pick which one fits the group better and refine it then, OR have a more solid idea of a single character and tweak them to fit the group?

as for the modes:

so you got three modes measured on different axis: one axis based on time-of-life, one axis based on how good at it you are/how important it is to you, and one axis based on your incarnation/ the combo of race & class & faction?

if i've gotten this right its like you have 1 mode based off your "race" like the templates ch 1 mentions, then your other modes are either a generic "which of 4 main traditional classes do you have training in" or a customized version of your own?

more random thoughts while catching up:

are you telling me sorcery is like computer programming but with simple AI? cause that sounds hella awesome. potentially confusing, but awesome

so the standard modes are like game classes distilled down to 4 very broad categories, with violence = warrior, intrigue = rogue, knowledge = mage, understanding = cleric

oooh so its not so much that devils are incomplete but just the misc category where you shove character templates that don't fit the other molds. clever.

 

We'll be using text more than likely. No mic needed.

Dice wise Fate uses Fate/Fudge dice. A roller is here. Works well enough and it's what I'll be using personally.

Also either or would work I think? Pick the thing that you feel most comfortable with when coming to the table. I personally went to mine with absolutely no planning done and just kind of decided on the spot that I wanted to be a fox and also the Handmaid so fuck it. We're gonna make a fox oc named Totally Not The Handmaid.

Your understanding of one of the modes being related to your incarnation is correct. The only one that doesn't have a mode associated with it is Devil. And Beasts I guess which have 12 potential modes depending on what clan they're in. So Grimly is a wolf and he'd be in the Faithful Fangs and thus get the Faithful Fangs mode, but Marc is a Scottish highland bull so he'd be in Bulldoze and thus have the Bulldoze mode.

Your next two modes you pick either from the list of standard modes or by making them yourself. I personally picked two standard ones when making the Jame sheet because lazy. I basically picked the two that would be most relevant to her. So Mode Violence and Mode Intrigue. You then take these modes and associate them with your past, present, and future aspects. So with her present aspect we have I Am Destruction As Dance. Thinking that over I decided ok, yeah, that gets to be Mode Tianshen and it gets to be her fair level mode. With her past that's very important like I said so I Was A Devil's Protegee, Plaything More Like gets to be her best mode level, good. It also gets associated with Mode Violence because that's what Jame learned from Gerridon. Violence. Finally there's her future aspect which was left over and thus was her fair level one. Intrigue fit well enough with I Will Be The One Who Cuts Through Stagnation. Because it's related to her pondering, philosophizing, and so on. Basically though you want to have three sets of 9 skills. Two of which you get to choose yourself, either in picking a standard mode or in entirely making up your own.

Also I don't really think of the standard four modes as being like the basic game classes? More just sets of skills that, realistically, are going to be commonly present in a lot of games. But that's just me and my absolute hatred for class systems. There is no class system. There is a race system. But there is no class system. I must continue to stress that There Is No Class System.

And yes! Souls are involved in sorcery and it's very much like programming in a way. There is in fact ethical issues to consider when it comes to things like AI and laptops in this world because they're actually "living" things.

 

well yeah, its not a class system because its REALLY customizable with little to no base framework, but its still based off the same "these skills generally go together because common usage" thing that classes are based on. so its like....less ancestor-descentant and more common-ancestor kind of thing

and cool, thanks for all the info. i think i'll sketch out like a sentence or two about a couple of character concepts and go from there when we're all together. i'll set up a discord account asap, too.

this sounds really fun and also terrifying :D

 

Yaaaay. Once you set up a thing you can friend my ass. Aondeug#5499. Thst number is vital.

 

got distracted
watched Little Door Gods
that...actually explained a lot about the possible setting of SS, but like in the form of a child-friendly story
also: cute

 

okay got a discord
im VJWocky#9976

already sent a friend request for Aon and Seer

 

Little Door Gods has the seal of approval of the game dev. I still need to watch it. His liveblog of it made it clear it was a cute fun thing.

 

yeah there were characters from LDG on the SS blog, which is how i learned of it
so im not surprised it meets the aproval of the game dev :]

its very cute. like pixar quality animation but very much Not American, which was a nice change

 

thank you so much aon for inviting me to this! first session was lots of fun for me :D

 

Oh. You had fun? :D I'm really happy to hear that.

 

yeah i Did A Thing, and it was Social, and it was New, and i Learned A Thing or two, and everyone Got Along

so yeah, fun :D

i just hope butter c gets some time to chill and recover. sounded like a stressful night for them :[

 

I'll help her fet through it. Is my job as a moirail yes.

 

...how much of a bother would it be for me to ask for more help with my character's office themed special effect?

cause im looking at the other character two character sheets and they seem much more complete and interesting in that regard and while Lei Lei might drag the group down a bit because of narrative, I don't want to drag it down by being bad at character creation

i think the biggest issue is just...not really getting how the game works well enough to make an interesting special effect on my own just yet. like i get the ones in the rules, and i get the ones you did for jame and tori, and i get the ones for Wu Xen and Se Li. but how to get from point A to point B is feeling more like trying to get from point A to point Z. like i know you got there, but i don't know how

should i hold off until sunday and ask then? or just hold off on special effects in general until we get to gameplay and i can see it in action and learn how it works that way?

cause i got some other questions too and i already feel like i've really heavily picked your brain about all this and im worried im entering the annoying stage of asking questions

 

My friend, you are in luck, it is nearly impossible to ask Aondeug too many questions, like, ever. Under any circumstances. If you get annoying Aon'll tell you, you haven't hit that point yet.

 

She tells the truth. I adore questions and also helping. So if you've got any ask away.

 

okay, good. good to know.
hmm... now where to start...

okay, one of the main points of confusion i have is differentiating what you HAVE to pick from the rules and what you GET to choose.

ex. i have to have a mode tied to my incarnation. my incarnation is tianshen duchess of seeds.

• does that mean i HAVE to pick the tianshen one in the rulebook, with no modifications?
• or can i tweak it by switching out some, but not all, of the skills?
• can i have it tied to my office instead (since its part of my incarnation but not rebirth)?
• can i make it up wholecloth?

and its not just the mode tied to incarnation. the special effects are kind of the same issue for me.

• do you HAVE to use the one tied to your rebirth/office as-is, or can you modify it?
• if you HAVE to use the one in the book as-is then what do i do for an office that doesn't have an official special effect yet (ie. Office Seeds)? especially since i don't really know how rolls/actions are used and resolved in-game (because noob).
• do i make it up NOW and have it suck/be broken/be nonsensical because i don't understand the mechanics?
• do i make it up later when i've seen how gameplay works but be semi-hampered in the meantime because im missing a part of character creation?
• do i pick a different office and thus a whole different character (because so much is tied to incarnation)?
• do i wait for people who know the setting/mechanics better to make an office special effect for me?

basically i went into this with a giant :? face over character creation because of mechanics, learned about those mechanics, learned enough to have MORE questions, and now im back at :? face over mechanics (just different ones than the first time)

would it just be simpler to make a new character that fits the party better at this point? one who's special effects and such are all already made and thus not something i have to worry about until we actually get to the gameplay?

i don't want to make everyone else wait on me and my ability to grok what's going on with the mechanics. but i feel like no matter what i do right now i'm going to wind up making people wait on me to understand, because its either wait on me to finish my current character (lei lei) or wait on me to make a whole other character and fit them into the group

it feels like for a situation like this people like me would do better with a choice of like 3-6 premade characters with stuff like incarnation and modes and special effects already figured out, but not the ranking of the modes or the aspects and attachments filled in yet. and then noobs like me can tweak stuff and learn the mechanics without having to flail (and fail) before even entering the game proper

but since we don't have that, what do?