The Iberian peninsula has a ton of influence of Arab cultures because of the Moor invasion and the Mediterranean area was under Ottoman/Turkish influence, and the way they treat their dead also pings me somewhat Egypt, so I headcanon her as Some Sort Of Brown/Arab or mixed - Rivain/nevarra/antiva seem to be the POC hub of Thedas, with Tevinter being a bit more mixed and things getting progressively whiter the souther you go.
I read Nevarra as Portuguese too. Which yeah, is sort of on that fuzzy line of white/POC. I read Tevinter as Holy Roman Empire, with the Qunari being further east into Asia. The Qun has a couple of tenuous similarities to Hinduism (mostly the idea of the highest calling is to fulfill your assigned role as fully as you can). I read Rivain as Northern Africa. So Morocco or somewhere similar?
[whiteness and culture nerdery begins!]Well, the whiteness of Mediterraneans seems to be pretty much where the person thinking about it comes from. Sure, they are a separate group from Eastern Europeans or Scandinavians, but still white to me. I think in Europe the pretty much only not white people are Romani and possibly some tribes up in the north. Which is interesting, because some of those tribes are Finno-Ugric in terms of language and culture, but so are Finland, Estonia and Hungary. In terms of placement, Hungary is really in a different place than Estonia and Finland are, but we are linguistically more similar, and then completely removed from the rest of Europe. Let's be real, I do take pleasure in telling tourists Russian and English are actually closer to each other than my mother tongue Estonian is to either of those. :P And yet all the three Finno-Ugric countries? Pretty white as white goes. I personally have been read as a person of color and could misrepresent myself as one, but that is rare among Estonians. Oddly enough the beigey skin/dark hair genes were the original ones, and the blue eyes blonde very white came from our long history of occupation by pretty much anyone in the region. And that's probably time to stop nerding (though I would likely give my firstborn to any company that actually bothered to use my culture group as inspiration in a game). [/nerdery] As to Qunari and reading them, uhh, I find the Qun as a name uncomfortable close to the Quran as it is, and also the whole "foreign creepy religion" thing sort of...weird? I have never really managed to understand if we're supposed to read them as good or super creepy. Good = religion gives meaning, bad = arranged breeding, torturing anyone who wants to leave, wiping people's minds with chemicals, and so forth.
I assumed that there wasn't intended to be a clear answer about how anyone is 'supposed' to feel about the Qun or the Chantry or much of anything in those games. I felt like they were trying to present a thing that wasn't unambiguously good or bad and just let the player decide how to react. I like how there's a variety of characters, and how you can't avoid picking sides that anger or alienate some of your peeps, but that they can still like and respect you anyways. I'm thinking Cassandra here, mainly, cause I know I've never done anything she one hundred percent approves of in either of my playthroughs, but she's still really supportive and cool about it.
Idk, I am leaning towards both Tevinter and the Qun being skeevy as fuck all get out with no ambiguity, even if the latter is not as obvious about it. I do like that they show that good people can still come out of shitty systems, but yeah. I mean, hell. *insert screaming into a pillow about mind destruction and horrific propaganda here* The Chantry bothers me a bit less, because it makes sense. Or like, if I was some randomass peasant in the arseend of nowhere, there's not a whole lot I'd be angry at the Chantry for doing. Like, I could be a pissant and say I don't believe in anything, but it won't get my mind destroyed. Not such a good deal for the mages, but well. Also yes Cassandra. Or like, how even with someone she might not like much (Sera), she is still trying to be helpful. I was dreading in the beginning that she would be the constant grumpy asshole lady but she turned out to be more than a trope, so I was happy! (Everyone's sort of turned out to be more of a person than a trope, I think, at least where the companions are concerned)
I'll be honest, I dunno much about the Qun. Talked with Bull about it some, and would be interested in knowing more, but I've completely exhausted my conversation options with him and don't want to read the wiki till I'm completely done with the game. I did think what I heard was fucking fascinating, and Bull brought up some interesting points about the value of freedom, and the idea of people being reeducated hit me in a lot of wonked up storytelling sweet spots, so. Could be that some of the shit you picked up on just sailed over my head. Still, yeah, I can see the Qun as Unambiguously Evil, but what's inherently wrong with Tevinter? I mean, that's not inherently wrong with any other place?
I definitely agree with the assessments that many of the big religious organizations are presented as both good and bad, with the possible exception of Tevinter. Interesting, though, how as the games have gone on, the organizations like the Chantry and the Qun have gone from mostly benign (in Origins in particular) to getting more and more shady. Like learning about the reeducators and Ben-Hassrath. Also about how the chantry may have covered up that Andraste was a mage, were complicit if not directly involved with the abuse of Mages in the Circles, and Spoiler: Jaws of Hakkon Spoiler The role of elves in the original Inquisition Basically I think the message is that every big organization like a religion has its good things and a whole lot of problems underneath the surface. Tevinter I think is the same way, just that history has made it so the dark underbelly is all anyone who's not Tevinter or a Tevinter sympathizer sees. Same I think could be said of the Elven religion. In Origin it was sorta just generic fantasy pantheon, but it started to become more concrete and complicated with the reverence Merrill's clan gave to Flemeth. Then the whole thing gets turned on its head in Inquisition. I've also got some theories on Dwarves. It's just sort of a wild guess at this point, but bear with me. What if the Dwarves were the ones who stormed the Black City and were cast out. Because of all the races, who lost their connection to the Fade? The blight is found in the red lyrium in the primeval Thaig that was sealed, potential evidence of the blight existing before The First Blight with all the darkspawn and such. Idk. It's a fun theory to ponder.
Uhh, what's wrong with Tevinter? UHH What Have we been playing the same game? Lol, sorry. I just thought Tevinter's wrong bad no was sort of already agreed upon as well, I mean. Wtf! Like in the awfulness olympics of Thedas they get to share first place with the Qunari and then the Chantry gets the second place. They're basically the worst nightmare of anyone who is afraid of the power mages wield by birth. And considering that they treat anyone who isn't a mage second-class at best and slave/disposable blood battery at worst, well. idk, I still believe it was the magisters who diddly done fucked up. but it would be awesome to have it explained why dwarves don't have a connection, rather than have it be "because they're so close to the earth lol".
No, i get that they're fucked, I just don't see what you think is inherently more fucked than any other system. I mean they're slavers, yeah, and they're p damn unfair to not mages, but I parsed the Chantry's treatment of mages as kind of slavey and mos definitely unfair to them, so, yeah. I don't get it. Sorry?
I am absolutely fascinated by the qunari. I think if they allowed people who didn't like/fit the system to leave, rather than opting for forced reeducation, and sought alternative methods for dealing with the threat of possession, I would subscribe to their newsletter.
It's a game of numbers, for me. Tevinters pretty much enslave more people and do fucked up things that can make things worse for everyone - like messing around with blood magic. Under Chantry rule people generally aren't allowed to pick a random person and butcher them for magic stuff that can break the Veil and let more demons into the world. So, I would say Tevinter is objectively worse for the small average joe, while the Chantry is worse for the far smaller group of mages. Not that I know the exact % in terms of population, but. Do I think the Chantry is okay? Not at all. Do I think the Chantry is the least evil of largely dominant ruling systems currently in use in Thedas? Yes. (If you pick from the three of the Qun, Tevinter and the Chantry, that is.) I realise that sounds pretty cruel of me, but I do personally believe that isolating possibly dangerous people from the rest of the population is a valid way of dealing with them if there's no better thing than can be done at that moment. I guess it's that I can really see how and why things would be as they are with the Chantry. It's like European religion in the Middle Ages except up to 11 and demons are real. I am not from a very religious country myself even while I am from Europe, but the continent's history is pretty much steeped in stuff like this. Like - if Middle Ages Europe had had actual mages and demons, that is pretty much what would have happened, p. sure. And that probably makes the world as compelling as it is. No one has got it entirely figured out and everyone thinks they're right. :P Which is pretty much what we have to deal with too, in everyday life. In other notes, starting the final quest soon, omg. And then I have jaws of hakkon to play as well. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. PS: sorry for being so !!!!!!!????!!!! about this. I am really not trying to convince anyone to agree with me, I am just having opinions and you're entirely free to disagree with me. since I've been talking so much in here, I felt it needed to be said. :) we don't have to play who is the worst if it's not fun.
I disagree with the statement that Tevinter harms more than the Chantry. I mean, in sheer number of people alive today, it /might/ possibly oppress more people, but there have been several Exalted Marches organized by the Chantry with the express purpose of murdering people and taking their lands (see Hilamshiral, which was the lands given to the Dalish). Furthermore, I imagine living as in one of the southern Alienages, particularly in Orlais (where Celene you know, burned down a whole one with all its inhabitants inside because there were rumors that she was too friendly with elves) is not that much better than living as a slave in Tevinter. The Chantry is very much invested in oppressing elves. Well, all of Thedas except the Qunari are invested in oppressing elves. It's not just mages that the Chantry have been shitty to. Honestly it's no wonder why so many elves are drawn to the Qun. And then, according to the hints Solas dropped, the ancient elven gods were just as bad as what we've got now, enslaving their people and such. Basically the stage is set for religious revolution and it's gonna be awesome.
Yeah, the Chantry is very much very invested in being shit to elves and mages both. it was... really painful to read the landmark entries on the Emerald Graves and the Exalted Plains, especially because I was playing as a Lavellan. No wonder the Dalish don't want anything to do with humans - erasing Shartan out of the Chant is just the cherry on the top. I think the games try to make it so that all institutions of power are sorta shitty - the info on Arlathan we get in inquisition sorta adds to that - but, idk. Tevinter is Really Bad, but the Chantry is getting Equally As Bad - the Chantry is an imperialistic force with a long reach in every country except Tevinter, who abuses and enslaves mages and templars and wages territory wars against their own principles - the Second Exalted March was a clusterfuck. I think the only thing I find agreeable about the Chantry is that they seem to supply an universal education system, given that everyone in Thedas knows how to read and write, but even then Chantry doctrine supresses the development of the sciences, so its still not 100% Nice. I personally don't like the idea of jailing people for crimes they haven't commited yet, which is what happens in the circles, and the environment there also doesn't help with creating well adjusted, happy people who wont fall into temptation easily - and that works for mages and templars, and includes the temptation to abuse power. The system for Dalish and Avaar mages works because of their relatively small numbers, and something more organized is definitely needed for southern mages outside these groups, but i dont think that villainizing a whole group of people and taking all their rights from them while giving total power over them to a bunch of indocrinated drug addicts with no direct oversight is the answer. like, it allows too many abuses in all directions to be reasonable, and is really just a way to enslave the mages and tranquils - i mean, i don't think the tranquils are exactly rolling in the dough that selling enchanted items makes for the chantry, i don't think mages living locked in a tower need wages for their work because they have nowhere to spend it, and while we know that templars get paid, we also know its not a lot. either way, i cant wait until whatever plot-bombs explode. i REALLY wanna know whats the deal with the elven deities and the blight and stuff like that, and if my theories are right. @hoarmurath Jaws of Hakkon is AWESOME. i wish all areas had their own story, like crestwood and the frostback basin
Very much this. It would have made your adventuring feel more fruitful and rewarding rather than just a leveling area. I think that's one of the biggest weaknesses of the game :( There is so much space but it's not as filled with story as it should be to justify that much. Also little quests and stuff don't really matter in the long run. I wish we had an ME3 style readiness rating that affected the outcome of the final battle. Actually, I really just wish we had the option of things going absolutely terribly for our inqusitors. Companions could die, the Inquisition could fall or be explicitly evil. that sorta thing. Theories?? Do share!
One of my Inquisition Fixes would be having all areas have their own arc, like Crestwood. One of the others would be that the mark on your hand doesn't stop growing, and grows larger, actually, every time you close rifts - but closing many (65-75) rifts was the only way to guarantee you could close the breach at the end of the game. if you only close the story-required rifts, after Corypheus is defeated you try to close the breach, but it's too powerful for you even with the foci and you end up dead while the breach stays open, with progressively better results until "breach is closed, everyone lives" at the top tier, but by then your whole arm would be green and weird and glowy, and it'd negatively impact gameplay at higher difficulties. Also the Inquisitor starts getting Weird. I can't find my big-ass post on it, but basically my theory is that the blight began with andruil hunting something ugly on the deep roads beneath Primaeval Thaig, and she infected Arlathan, which was locked away in the Fade (or was actually located in the Fade) by cutting the eluvian network. the deities were contaminated by the blight and put to sleep, the dwarves, who were sorta-magical, completely cut their contact with the fade to avoid catching the blight, and sealed and erased primaeval thaig. from memory. when the magisters arrived in the golden/black city, they just broke the seals the elves had created, and brought the blight back.
@witchknights Oooh, Yeah I love that closing the breach idea. Maybe with another "can sell your soul to save yourself" option like there was in Origins (Though the Dark Ritual is more complicated than that). I just like being able to fail pretty hard. Though I love what they did with Hawke in inquisition (or at least the choice. I have other criticisms about the quest and I wanted to see Anders again by I understand...) I particularly like the idea of the mark continuing to grow. I saw a really sad comic where it was growing and the Quizzy was hiding it from their LI/friends until it was too big and it was very sad and perfect. Ugh. ;-; If you find that theories sheet, definitely share! I love theories!
If you take history into account, then yes, the Chantry was also pretty fucking terrible. But if I was a human rando, I'd still choose to live under them rather than someone else. Because one might get lucky. I guess the idea of mages dialed up to Terrible Eleven just frightens me more than what the Chantry has done. Yes, still fucking terrible, but. Everyone is terrible and problematic. /sarcasm :P (and man I'll stop talking about it, I swear, so done with it :P) Finished the game. So what the fuck Solas what the fuck man aaaagh. But yeah, the game areas need more story, that is true. There's a weird mismatch between the main story and the areas. I was overleveled by 4 levels by the time I went to kick Corypheus's ass. Not sure how that could be solved, though. *ponders* Also why hasn't anybody written that stupid ust-filled male human rogue/Iron Bull fic yet (i need it, I really do), am I really going to have to write it myself, you don't want me to do that, fandom. Rly you don't. PS. At least with the Chantry you can affect things to get better depending on who you support. Choosing Leliana seemed like a good one, but I wonder which Divine they'll make canon.
I have a feeling they'll make Cassandra canon, but I can be wrong. And yeah, I agree that if I was a random citizen of thedas, I'd be a lot happier to live under chantry rule. Re Solas: I KNOW, RIGHT??!
