Even less sure where to put this

Discussion in 'Brainbent' started by seebs, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. rje

    rje here comes the sun

    You had a vent thread in a forum that, at the time, I thought was just for talking about general brainbugs and asking advice and ect, so I kinda of assumed it was like... You had special permissions to do that. Also your name kinda said 'mod' to me, and the way you carried yourself maybe? I'm honestly not entirely sure just kinda of, something I thought for no reason that makes sense lol
  2. Lissa Lysik'an

    Lissa Lysik'an Dragon-loving Faerie

    I rarely agree with Rigs - but I agree with Rigs.
    • Like x 8
  3. thegrimsqueaker

    thegrimsqueaker 28 Moribunding Mouse Aggravates the Angry Assholes

    @rje just popping up to say that I put my vent thread in brainbent rather than holler closet so that my sister can read it w/o making an account, bc my vent thread is about our mother, and the thread is also a general request for advice and reality checks for that situation, which I thought was relevant to the subforum when I made the thread. I think I have another vent thread that's about a different situation, but that started out in the advice subforum and I asked for it to be moved once I figured out that there was nothing to be done about the thing in question. otherwise, I don't really get vent threads as a "private" space, so I generally stay out of them so I don't cause any problems w my misunderstandings (aside from a few where I've been asked for my opinion)
    edit: by which I mean, so I don't cause problems w my misunderstanding of the basic premise of vent threads
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
    • Like x 3
  4. IvyLB

    IvyLB Hardcore Vigilante Gay Chicken Facilitator

    Okay this is the exact thing that is very frustrating about dealing with you. This specific thing comes up often with discussions you are involved in. If you invoke lack of fact checking as a criticizable point, it's hypocrisy to not show your work in the very same discussion.
    Dodgeing that by going "well you can feel free to not believe me" is bullshit, seebs, if you are in a discussion and you are trying to convince others/be convinced by other, not putting in the work to prove your arguments is weak as shit and drags the whole discussion down to a level of pure rhetorics and force of personality. No. I don't want to make obligations on your time and spoons, but I do want to get engaged on the same level as I am trying to engage. I am perfectly willing to put in the work to go through the thread to substantiate my impressions into proper arguments. If you are not willing to do so, then that is a you problem, but it also means you do not get to demand things be fact checked instead of impressions-stated-as-fact in the same line of argumentation.
    I think so too.
    Okay. You misunderstood my point. Sole responsibilty lies with no one. But some of the responsibility lies with you.
    Okay that is fair. Why do you continue bringing it up if it's not useful, instead of looking at the claims she made on a factual level?
    No I'm saying it is uncharitable framing to use language to paint someone as "unreasonable and emotional" in a way eerily reminiscend of misogynistic rhetoric used to dismiss (female) people who are angry. Which is a pretty strong comparison I don't 100% stand by, and am not yet sure I would accuse you of doing, hence why I tried to not make it so explicitly initially.
    I disagree.
    Seebs, I don't know if you've noticed, but the forum is pretty big and you don't really post that often. I personally would not expect you to ever notice a thread which I did not use the report functionality in. This doesn't mean I expect I can sneakily shittalk you on your own forum in total secrecy, that would be dumb, but it does mean that when I discuss the culture and policies of a forum, ON that forum, I don't necessarily assume a staff member will ever see it, especially if it isn't in That's So Meta. There's a lot more grey between "Secret from seebs" and "Actively sought seebs out" than you seem to think there is. Sliding scale, not Boolean.
    It makes no fucking sense to discuss the culture of a forum anywhere BUT that forum, aside from like the spin-off skype/discord chatrooms. At least not if you actually want a productive discussion.
    Okay, here's a clarification: Stop using my emotional state or hypothetical thought processes as arguments and rhetoric devices. Don't comment on them, don't muse about them to yourself, don't bring them up. You said you aren't a mind reader. So don't try to read minds.
    Yes I did in fact notice you went to another thread to get people to support you. I also did not say universal agreement, I am fairly sure I meant to communicate "consensus", not sure if I said exactly that but eh. Are you going to answer the questions or are you going to continue dodgeing them rhetorically to make me look stupid?
    It was my impression, yes, based on the fact that I'm trying to do my best to keep up with the forum's internal policies and self regulation and try to keep on top of most discussions. I am fairly aware that that wasn't the initial purpose of the forum. I also conceded that not all of them were necesssarily vent threads, the fact remains they tend to be emotionally charged topics, which require a more careful and gentle social protocol than the pure discussion/debate threads. I tend to assume that harsh, authoritative or academic-register-wording/sentence-structure communication styles are likely to come across as unkind in this subforum. I usually attempt a more soft, light tone and qualify my words a lot more.
    Yeah i think of it more as a sort of "tag" thing. Something can both pocess the trait "vent thread" and the trait "advice thread" and/or "discussion thread". Which traits from which tag are active in any given thread is a bit hard to say at a glance sometimes, but it's usually something along the lines of "here be cutlery flying and unkind things, discussion and advice are allowed at own risk, but thread OP wants to have some control over things to feel safe/comfortable with the level of openness about emotions"
    Social protocols tend to arise in absence of explicit rules. Complete sociocultural anarchy is not a default state, seebs, and it's unlikely to lead to any kind of productive or happy community. What you want requires a lot more micromanaging and a general agreement from most people inside the community.
    Most people try their best to discuss or explain the protocol they are operating on from what I've seen.
    The last explicitly discussed protocol I was aware of was "Ask for clarification either via PM or in the (vent) thread if someone is vagueing about you, if you do not like how someone talks about you/the things you have done, start a thread in TCHGB, that's what the subforum is for". Since we spent for fucking ever hammering that protocol out, yes some people might get angry if it gets completely ignored. I think that is also something that tends to come up regularly in the whole topic of "no rules" administration: Since we have no rules, the only thing we can enforce is social consequences. Anger is a social consequence.
    Who explicitly are you talking about? Because I personally do not think you are being malicious. I think that what you are doing is likely to be read as disrespect, yes, but I have no fucking idea if you are or are not acting with malice. I think you are being careless.
    That is your impression, my impression is that you were a lot more forceful than you needed to be.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
    • Like x 8
  5. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Probably a good point. I have a lot of long-pending stresses about the site that are, for various reasons, impossible to resolve, and I'm really burned out on it, and I get a ton of complaints that are mutually exclusive, and I just get really sick of the whole thing.
    • Like x 1
  6. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Ivy: There's a bunch of stuff in there I object to, so I'm just gonna take rigs' advice.
    • Like x 2
  7. IvyLB

    IvyLB Hardcore Vigilante Gay Chicken Facilitator

    Feel free. Have a nice break
  8. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Yeah. I dunno what has me so riled, it's probably a combination of things, but I think at this point I'ma take a break for a while.
    • Like x 2
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