Even less sure where to put this

Discussion in 'Brainbent' started by seebs, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    It's specific to "confidence and trust". Basically, I won't treat people in ways I think are bad, generally, but I don't actually care much how they feel about me. If they hate me or think I'm bad, that's fine by me. I lack the need to have people think I'm good.
  2. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Ohhh. That explains a lot.

    Yeah, I definitely distinguish between "trying to exchange words with a person" and "quoting and commenting on things a person has said", they're totally different activities.
    • Like x 2
  3. rje

    rje here comes the sun

    This makes a lot more sense re: some of the exchanges you've had as its a very unique viewpoint to hold.

    What then, would you say, is the best statement to use if someone didn't want you interacting with them AND their words? And, is not interacting with someone's words at all something you're willing to do at all?

    (I feel like clarifying this concretely would help people quite a bit.)
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
  4. Emma

    Emma Your resident resident

    I understand it's the culture of this forum to go along with this kind of the request (the 'leave me and everything I say alone' type of deal) but they make me pretty uncomfortable and make me worry that we will end up in something like this:

    I think a forum is an open discussion type of space and it's pretty unfair to mix yourself in a discussion and then refuse someone the chance to respond to you.
    I think it would be more reasonable to ask someone to stop pinging you to the thread, either by using their name or by quoting you in such a way you get pinged. (Leaving something alone on a poster's end is now also easier because you can ofcourse ignore threads)
    • Like x 4
  5. IvyLB

    IvyLB Hardcore Vigilante Gay Chicken Facilitator

    We must be reading excessively different posts then because as far as I can tell most people here are specifically addressing the way your actions come across, not any internal processes. Please quote exactly where you are perceiving these appeals to your internal process if you are going to state that you see them.

    That's fair enough I guess, but that is what usually happens when there is no proper catalogue of rules/guidelines that is getting referenced and/or enforced. Total sociocultural anarchy is not something that tends to happen.

    Also would you please define the word implicit as you are using it? Because of course no one ever discalimered Brainbent-and-so-on as an Emotions Space, then it would be explicit, not implicit.
    Asking questions first, before diving in and accusing people of lying, with the implication of such being done with malicious intend, might help.
    • Like x 3
  6. electroTelegram

    electroTelegram Well-Known Member

    a problem i see is that the comic could easily be applied to safewords and boundaries in general ("please stop" being the safe word in the story) and just because something has the potential for being abused doesn't mean it will be, and doesn't mean it should never be used.

    safewords can be abused, and boundary setting can be abused, but i think that the benefit to allowing people to have both safewords and boundaries anyway exceeds the possible consequences of people abusing them.
    • Like x 10
  7. AbsenteeLandLady124

    AbsenteeLandLady124 Well-Known Member

    what do you do when they *are* being abused though, is the thing

    I really dislike peekaboo culture things in general and am intensely paranoid that if someone ever takes a dislike to me, they can vague about me in their vent thread, misrepresent me, and have people chime in like 'wow this person is a fucking douchelord' because what do I do then? i can't object to it in the thread or ask for clarification that i am the person being targeted without then being targeted for doing so. private communication would also be able to be misrepresented in further vaguing, and i wouldn't be able to post screenshots of the conversation to argue against that without that being seen as a violation of privacy. i couldn't make an argument island thread because the person could just say they weren't talking about me at all and then, hey wow, look i'm an asshole!!
    etc etc
    that's the kind of situation that i worry about a lot wrt vent threads and personal conflict

    I know that's a me thing though
    • Like x 6
  8. electroTelegram

    electroTelegram Well-Known Member

    yeah but if people take a dislike to you (general) they can misrepresent you and vauge about you elsewhere on the internet, or in meatspace with friends there, and have those people go 'wow what a fucking duchelord' and you wouldnt be able to reply to them there either. like i think that this problem/situation is kind of inherent to human conflict, and i dont know if there is a fix to it.

    and i don't know what to do when they are being abused. im not proposing solutions because i don't think i can, i just wanted to point out that i think it's a really bad idea to say/imply people shouldnt use safewords and boundaries just because they can be abused.
    • Like x 4
  9. Ipuntya

    Ipuntya return of eggplant

    no, that's a very real concern, especially considering that almost exactly this has already been happening to me these past few weeks, with the sole difference being that people are freely admitting to the posts being about me, and with one person having even tagged me in their vent thread to taunt and harass me knowing i'd look like an asshole if i responded

    i'd say the current forum culture is actually even worse than you fear
    • Like x 3
  10. AbsenteeLandLady124

    AbsenteeLandLady124 Well-Known Member

    yeah but in those situations they aren't doing it in an environment shared with the target
    • Like x 2
  11. electroTelegram

    electroTelegram Well-Known Member

    that's very true, and i think venting in a place where you know your words can easily be seen by the person you're venting about can (and does) definitely become a problem, and im super anxious about it too. but i dont know where to draw the line wrt venting about people in places so idk..... like i can think of social expectations (like, i personally think venting about someone in a place they can see it is very bad form), but on a forum like this i dont think making guidelines based on social expecations is going to be helpful? idk.

    edit: spelling
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
    • Like x 1
  12. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    No, it's not a thing I'm willing to do at all. If your words are made available to other people, other people have every right to think about or react to those words. I don't see this one as even a tiny bit negotiable.
  13. IvyLB

    IvyLB Hardcore Vigilante Gay Chicken Facilitator

    The problem is that quoting posts via the forum software generates an alert whether or not you have a thread unwatched, and I believe, might even supercede the ignore thread function, so that might cause problems with people trying to disengage.
    • Like x 3
  14. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    "weighing LT's discomfort against your curiousity" is a description of a thought process, not an external behavior.

    I'm probably using it exactly the same way you are, I think? "Implicit" as in "not explicitly stated, but still implied". But there has never been any generally agreed belief that Brainbent-etc were "Emotions Space" or anything of the sort. Some people thought that, others didn't. It's not just that such a policy was never stated explicitly; it's that there wasn't such a policy that people had agreed on.

    I generally do prefer to ask questions first. It's pretty rare for me to accuse people of lying without asking questions first. Other people might be more willing to reach the conclusion sooner.
  15. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Yeah. Forum software, it turns out, is not great at handling the case where you posted something because you didn't want to discuss it.
  16. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    I think it depends a lot on what the boundaries are. It's easy to make unreasonable boundaries, and I think our forum culture has tended to not stop to ask whether a boundary makes any sense at all before agreeing that you should always respect boundaries.
    • Like x 2
  17. IvyLB

    IvyLB Hardcore Vigilante Gay Chicken Facilitator

    Yes and ONE person said that. The forum has a search function.
    Here is the full quote, specifically in the context of stating that spock is not currently wanting to definition splice.
    It looks incredibly disingenous when you just quote the phrasing and do not say who said that. One person saying this does not mean everyone is using your perceived internal processes as arguments.
    Funny how that goes I came away from the last discussion of vent thread policy with the strong impression this was what most forum users assumed pertained to all threads in Brainbent. I am willing to reconsider if you can find someone else who did previously assume the things in a forum literally labeled "Group Hug" were supposed to be taken at face value/with disregard of possible emotional state.
    I am not making a statement about what you generally do and don't do. I don't want to hear that. I am making a statement as to in what way you overstepped in this specific instance. What I want to hear is either "No this solution does not work with me for X/Y/Z reason" or something to the effect of "I will try harder to remember doing that in the future."
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
    • Like x 9
  18. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Yes, it was the first example that came to mind that I'd specifically looked at. I think there have been others, but "has a search function" doesn't mean "the search function can resolve, in under an hour, the question of whether one or more posts which were directed to me in some way contained things that were good examples of the thing".

    It seemed to me that many of the apparent criticisms had to do with presumed internal state. Maybe I read them wrong.

    Now I'm even more confused, because "at face value" seems like the opposite of the thing. And I have no idea whether this was a widespread belief. Certainly, I didn't think there was a general assumption that all the threads in this forum, whether or not they had previously been thought of as vent threads, had acquired a new semantic.

    ... Now I'm confused. I certainly accused LT of being egregiously wrong about my beliefs, but I don't think I said "lying" at first. And here's where my very literal interpretation of "don't want to talk to you" comes in: Once they said that, I stopped trying to ask LT questions, because I assumed they wouldn't answer. At which point I went with best-guess evaluations because I couldn't ask for clarification because they didn't want to answer questions.
  19. rje

    rje here comes the sun

    It's not just a you thing, I agree, and was getting increasingly concerned at what appears to be a growing sentiment that if someone's spouting lies about you in their vent thread you aren't allowed to defend yourself

    Vaguing, fine, whatever, I'd rather someone came to me directly instead of being a coward but saying I'm doing something in not, acting some way I'm not, lies? No, I better be allowed to address that. If not then this isn't the place forme
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
    • Like x 5
  20. prismaticvoid

    prismaticvoid Too Too Abstract

    I agree, but I think the general consensus we came to of "address it in That Could Have Gone Better/PMs" is good because it allows people a space to rant and be rude but also ensures people can talk stuff out.
    • Like x 10
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