Discussion in 'Braaaaiiiinnnns...' started by Acey, Mar 26, 2016.
I guess you could say she has a...
Hm, well my thoughts are... (if u don't mind me rattling off why i think pearl fits bpd) ... Pearl is in a sense more reserved, and hm, more... she's 'better' at keeping certain symptoms in check, or at least being quieter about it, I think. Different types of BPD? or different symptoms at the front? I think a lot of the symptoms fit her, but focusing in I think the one symptom everyone hears about with BPD is that 'they manipulate other for attention/are destructive in search of attention/require validation'. We also know most people, really, who have BPD have maladaptive ways of seeking connections and there's usually early neglect that's responsible for this.
Which, well, Pearl was someone who was probably super neglected when it comes to receiving attention in formative parts of her life. She's learnt a lot beyond that, but there's still - you know, was treated like an object, treated as less then a person, etc. When I think of Pearl I just think of all those... we have that sizeable arc where she literally lies to get Garnet to pay attention to her. She creates a false scenario in which she can feel important, where she can feel that she's wanted, where she gives someone a reason to pay attention to her, and to validate her importance, and of course it blows up in her face as it tends to go (also, amethyst voice: i completely understand that)
She also has... that BPD self image of, well, no self image: devoted to rose, serving a purpose in the war, rose made me feel like i was something. everything. Seems to split from really liking amethyst to disliking her intensely - this shared relationship turbulence between the two of them. It's a complicated relationship, but ever twisting. She also seems? really concerned about the impression people have of her. About them leaving her, or what they think of her, or how they might believe she's less capable and therefore not worthy of being trusted or leaned on (a sort of emotional abandonment in that sense - she derives the identity she does have from being a teacher, even if she doesn't say so explicitly). She has worthy strength she can prove, and she's concerned about it, she can be useful, and if she's useful people will need her and if people need her, she won't be abandoned, etc etc.
See, I relate to Pearl more on the traits I show, but... that's also because I saw a lot of myself in her when I first got diagnosed. Maybe it's a ways of expression thing, I'm not sure.
Imo, Amethyst and Pearl both have BPD/or traits of... maybe that's why they have such issues communicating? Hm.
Also, re: Garnet I thought she very much had symptoms of PTSD. there's... gosh, there's quite a few hints to that. I think even here comes a thought was sort of about it too.
I read her as autistic too, but imo that one's more interpretative.
I see Pearl as having BPD and DPD
because the way her symptoms present and the way she acts presents a lot to me as the way BPD and DPD interact when you have both
Interested to hear your thoughts on autistic Garnet!
@Acey ok so, ironically i was talking the other day with a friend about autistic garnet? so with that in mind I think I'll try to tackle it right now. Garnet's not exactly the 'type' of autistic I am, (I'm a Peridot autistic lol) but she reads as really autistic to me!
1. Garnet tends to have a pretty flat effect - a lot of people can't really tell if she's joking or not when she speaks, and she's very successful at 'dry' humour. There's a few instances where you can see she catches people off with her flat effect too.
2. She tends to have pretty limited body language/nonverbal communication too. I find a lot of autistic folk have kind of weird or limited (in garnet's case) nonverbal communication. Also, I know there's some scenes where she'll express emotion early on and the other crystal gems are a bit surprised? For instance, she says 'she panicked' when she has that phone call with Connie's mom but her outward expression is one of calm. There's a disconnect between what she feels and what she shows on the surface.
3. Garnet's a pretty awkward conversationalist in general? She doesn't seem to have much time for small talk, and seems partially nonverbal. She seems to... lack the capacity for it in certain regards, actually. [points again to the phone call with connie's mom] There's a few examples of this in general when it comes to her interacting with townspeople. She reacts with action in a lot of circumstances, when asked her opinion on things as well. She lacks a lot of the 'filter' and niceties a lot of people have when speaking to others, see the situation regarding Jamie as well. She's pretty blunt and abrupt with people for the most part too.
4. I know that scene in Arcade Mania is an example of 'weird alien stuff' but I think it could def be shown as hyperfocusing in on something. She gets focused in on the patterns and repetitive movements there.
5. Bit controversial, but the way she perks up whenever anyone mentions fusion and is ready to tell them more, or give them a nudge... I think a little bit about an SI. I've had SIs in things related to identity before, so I think it could be.
Anyway, thinking of that scene where Greg turns to her and asks her opinion on his old CD in the car and she just straight up jumps out of the car and rolls away is such a hilariously autistic scenario to me. Unpleasant stimuli and nonverbal response. Outta there.
I didn't mention it up there, but in lieu of verbally responding she either performs an action (mentioned) or gives some limited sign of body language. Remember the iconic thumbs up to Peridot? Does that more than once in lieu of a verbal response.
I think she rarely comes off as someone who has a 'warm front' and she has this... closed off feeling of a Particular Kind of Quiet Autistic. I think she naturally seems a bit disconnected from the others and was forced to be even more disconnected when leadership was thrust upon her because she had a hard time connecting anyway.
Rick Sanchez gives me some major cluster B personality disorder vibes. Not exactly sure where in cluster B (I feel like you could make especially good arguments for ASPD and/or BPD, but I can see potential NPD traits too?), but definitely somewhere, IMO.
And I'm pretty sure Beth has some sort of brainweird fleas courtesy of Rick, as well as some pretty clear trauma related to him abandoning her? She actually strikes me as possibly a narcissist, but I'm nowhere near certain of that and I don't know enough about NPD to make a good guess.
Thinking about it, I wonder if Pearl Fey from Ace Attorney might actually be dyslexic. It's played in-universe as her just being young and not very good at reading, but her reading level seems a fair bit below what I would expect from an 8-year-old, and it's shown in one case that she tends to mix up letters, which from what I know is more of a dyslexic trait than anything else. (I'm not sure how applicable this one is in the original Japanese versions of the series, since in those ones she struggles with kanji specifically, but yeah.)
I got PTSD vibes from Keith from Voltron from episode one. Not a ton to support it, but he seems really hypervigilant, doesn't form attachments easily with others, generally seems to be carrying a weight of something that makes the world a lot less bright in an angry sort of way
Edited bc upon reflection PTSD and depression are really linked and depression can manifest as anger too
Shiro also has PTSD but I feel like that's more canon than headcanon
kicks down door
runs in here
rehashing some stuff i posted about elsewhere in here about dave and karkat's various brainbugs
karkat pings me as having
the way his "explosions" read to me as someone lashing out during a panic attack. the scene where he gets beaned with a pail iirc he outright says he thinks he's having a panic attack, and that and a lot of his antics kind of get written off as "lol karkat" but funny as it is i think he was having one, and probably has them a lot. anxiety tends to get regarded as this shrinking violet mental illness, but it can get really aggressive, and i think karkat is a perfect example of someone who consistently picks "fight" when his brain is on constant "fight or flight" mode
pretty obvious imo. he hates himself and anything he ever does, and thinks it's objective fact that he's completely worthless except for maybe being able to take a bullet for someone. he and vriska talking make this really apparent, especially when he's willing to defend dave for having issues with dirk (when he's not even entirely aware of the extent of bro's abuse and not used to human familial relationships) but goes on a monologue with kanaya about how everything vriska said about him is true and he doesn't even deserve to be with them all
this one is more speculative than the previous two, but hey that's what the thread's for right! karkat's room is pretty neat--about on par with john's, although i think he's a little more particular about poster layout and stuff. buuuut he also says he practices in his room with his sickles. which means he cut himself, because there is no way you fuck around with a sharp hooked weapon and don't hurt yourself. which means he bled on his clothes, and i think his already-there anxiety led to some really unhealthy behaviours specifically regarding keeping his house Appearing Correct and checking for bloodstains. he's probably got some really specific laundry rituals because if he doesn't soak everything in cold water, wash it twice, check it and scrub any dubious spots before putting it in the dryer, then he'll miss a spot and someone will see it somehow and he'll get culled. he's got the hypervigilance too, i think--you gotta when scraping a knee could be a death sentence.
i think on the meteor instead of getting better it probably got worse, even though no one would cull him anymore. the behaviors were already so ingrained by that point and there was so little to do for three years that there wouldn't be much to stave off the intrusive thoughts with, and at least when you're taking all the books off your shelf and reorganizing for the third time that day it's something to do
dave more pings me as
seems pretty self-explanatory to me? a lot of dave's behaviors feel almost textbook. shutting himself off emotionally, being uncomfortable with people thinking of him as a hero or placing him equal to themselves, being afraid of blood/fighting/metal sounds, his self-worth issues that are more apparent in davesprite but still clearly there in dave, he's definitely got trust issues, and this is a headcanon within a headcanon but i think dave dissociates especially during strifes. cuts himself off even further, because it's not like not fighting is an option with bro or in the game but fuck if he's going to be entirely present while he does it. basically, bro really fucked him up, but that's just canon.
different from karkat's in that karkat would be depressed no matter where he went and i think dave was mostly just depressed on the meteor, although we haven't really seen much postgame so this is purely speculation. i don't think he copes well with the sort of choking stagnation on the meteor--dave likes to go fast, work fast, always be moving, doing, acting and the meteor forced him to slow down. ultimately, i think he handled it really well and it furthered his growth as a person from a purely narrative standpoint, but that didn't mean that at least the first year didn't fucking suck for him.
@cassikat you are a Cool Dude re: headcanons B) althooooough, uh, personally I'm not sure about Karkat and OCD, specifically because HELLS OF AGREED on the severe anxiety, but I'm... not sure how GAD and OCD would stack? given that they're both anxiety disorders? like, idk if you can have "I'm just very anxious about thing" and "I'm anxious about thing, so I follow compulsions to make myself feel better" at once? like, would you only deal with some anxiety compulsively? so I'd call that just an anxiety disorder generally, along with some spectacularly shitty coping methods.
also re: Dave YES AGREED but ALSO may I suggest ADHD (his amazing tangents and derail abilities, plus me projecting) and anxiety? I mean, you've covered some of the stuff I'd call anxiety in the C-PTSD bit, but he's just so fucking insecure sometimes, and I feel like he's almost constantly on edge (also may be responsible for the rambling). lots of that is from Bro, I bet. but allllso I am willing to entertain counter-arguments because. I have a tendency to slap an anxiety label on everybody and call it a day, because what is impartial character judgement, so. I mean. for instance, here is an incomplete list of Homestuck characters I am convinced are anxious:
Roxy (though idk, it might just be depression self-worth issues)
Equius??? atypically so, it's just that breaking rules makes him Anxious
Eridan (also maybe just depression)
multiple carapaces except I've forgotten their names whoops
soooo. take my anxiety diagnoses with a grain of salt. :P
edit: OH MY GOD I FORGOT CALLIOPE so yeah, Calliope
You probably already knew this since you're a Hamsteak, but Latula having anxiety (or something related) is actually pretty heavily implied in canon! She explicitly mentions that she gets super stressed about not using her quirk sometimes, and mentions in the tags that that's especially an issue when she's off her meds, so I'd say that her having some flavor of anxiety disorder (and having a serious enough case to need medication) is just canon tbh.
@Acey I think I forgot that particular detail, but nonetheless I had a Strong Impression. didn't know she's on meds though, that's cool! wish more people were, honestly, poor dears could use some. (but like. TROLL PSYCHOACTIVE MEDICATION. WHAT IS IT LIKE.)
relatedly, I'm also convinced that the Knight and Page classes come with built-in anxiety disorders. poor babies... :(
@esotericPrognosticator gimme a sec to respond to the rest, i'm phone and my cats are trying to eat my fries, but! depression, anxiety, and OCD are all frequently comorbid!
firstly: TYVM! you're a Cool Dude too >:D
anyway okay, so: for me, karkat's compulsions are more specific to things that maybe could have once posed a legitimate threat--so mostly they have to do with his blood color and probably general combat-readiness after the game. this is pure speculation because i spend way too much time sperging about my son, but when i deliberately write OCD karkat this is how i do it
his anxiety definitely feeds into it, but yeah, he doesn't handle every anxiety with compulsions. doesn't mean it's not OCD, though! if the compulsions eat up a significant part of your day, cause you and others distress, and you feel like stopping them will cause something bad to happen/like you can't stop...it's OCD, even if you don't do it for every thing that makes you anxious
i really like ADHD dave though and i'm stealing it forevermore
and i think a convincing argument for anxiety could definitely be made! (and that you've made a damn good one), but yeah i think i prefer C-PTSD as my explanation, heh. altho i think the two are comorbid but don't quote me on that?
By the way, someone please remind me to screm about my Damara headcanons here because I have a lot of those. (TL;DR: She pings me as possibly-borderline and I think the murder spree thing was a psychotic break, since those can be violent in rare cases? Not sure how much of my BPD!Damara headcanon is just me projecting, because I will freely admit that I project onto her like crazy (no pun intended), but I have Thoughts there.)
ME TBH except Dirk is my son which is. ironic
:OOO do you have fic??
:P tell me about it!
ALSO the DSM-5 on comorbidity (spoiler: you are right, they overlap a lot but there are behaviors specific to OCD):
spread him like wildfire ;P
well, C-PTSD isn't an Official Thing In The Book (yet), but, like. so many things can be comorbid, especially with anxiety and depression. so many. but yeah, both! both is good!
(also I think regular ol' PTSD is good shit too. nightmares, flashbacks, dissociation, sign my fave the FUCK up.)
in less than a month i will, ideally! i have some snippets that will never see the light of day and some one on one rp otherwise
oh no, i know it's not technically in the book! s part of why i said don't quote me on that ;p
and yeah, i didn't mention standard PTSD only because i think literally every surviving cast member has it, eheheheh :'y
well, but like. nicely matured PTSD, you know? none of this trendy "SBURB" bullshit. :P
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