General Religion Talk

I
hmmm.
my beliefs are most easily summed up as "I am unsure if there are gods, but if they exist I definitely think there's more than one, because I believe in a higher plane where divine beings reside, and I think that this is where people go when they die and then are reincarnated, but basically I think divine beings reside in this plane constantly, and can contact our plane if they so choose, and I think they're all equally powerful and that no one specific deity created things, but rather that a lot of them had a hand in creating specific things. so, for instance, the great spirit created my people, the abenaki, but someone else made the Irish, etc., etc. I also believe in a universal energy that drives things, and I believe this energy can be influenced by the thoughts and wants of human people or divine interference, and I think that magic is a part of summoning this universal energy and using a bit of it to your will."

 

I am v much in the same boat as @Re Allyssa.

also regarding saints and Mary: the best way I ever heard it described is this. Christians are meant to be a big community, right? and if you're having an issue, you would ask a friend for help, because that's what Christians are supposed to do, help each other. (heh) the saints (and Mary) were a big part of the community at one point, and, well, we believe that eternal life is a thing, so why would it be a problem to ask them to help out too?

but that's just one flavour of interpretation. i like @Elph's too.

I grew up Canadian Baptist (not the fundamentalist kind, verrrrrrry liberal folks). I got thoroughly indoctrinated with the "True Love Waits" purity bullshit (the conservative remnants in the denomination), and through high school I got very disillusioned with that. In my first year of university, I tried to go to the mainstream Baptist church in that town, and it really was an uncomfortable place for me, so I noped out. I sang with a choir at the Presbyterian church for a while, but that wasn't really my cup of tea either (my then-bf/now-husband and I knew the choir director), so we left. Then I got a job singing at the Anglican cathedral in town and it was like woh. The dean there was not afraid to tackle the big theological issues from the pulpit, and he was friendly and personable, and the choir director was rad (he played at our wedding and was also a prof at the university for EVER), and the choir was awesome and we loved it.

Now that we've moved to Winnipeg, we're kinda back in the lurch. I have no interest in returning to my home church. I've picked up a job singing at an Anglo-Catholic church (technically Anglican, practically Catholic), and I like it well enough but it's not a long-term church. I know the music director at the head Anglican cathedral in the city and I might be in line to get a position there in the fall, which would be cool.

I do like the Anglican liturgy. I like the return to ritual, and the embrace of thoughtful faith. Granted, my home church's current pastor is smart as a whip and very theologically minded, and they were never "check your brain at the door" folks, but it's uncomfortable enough that I'm just not interested.

But ... I dunno. I'm taking a world religions class this year and it's really interesting. I've always been interested in different religions and faiths and practices. I am occasionally tempted to try things like magic and stuff but I still have the weird "no this is wrong" feeling, and because I haven't really been able to pinpoint that, I haven't pursued it. I have higher priorities right now.

I don't know. I certainly think there's something bigger than us. I don't really know what I think that looks like, or is. I've had experiences that I would either classify as severe undiagnosed brainweird, or definitely spiritual. And being that I'm not the only one in the world experiencing stuff of this sort, I suspect they fall into the latter category.

All that to say that I don't really know for sure where I stand, personally, at the moment. I work for the Church. Sometimes my heart is in it. I take comfort on relatively frequent occasions in the rituals and familiar words.

 

-breaks down the door-


AAHHHHHHHH.

Hello. So I fall into the weird category of having two religions. Namely Thai Theravada Buddhism and Gaelic reconstructionist polytheism. Both are horrible nerd faiths of lots of studying.

In regards to praying to the Saints thing...I find it easiest to explain it as being similar to asking friends or family to pray for you. Just these happen to be saints who are kind of up there so yeah. So not praying to God and viewing them as gods or something. Just asking for their help in talking with the old man. At least it's worked for me explaining it to Protestants who were notably pissy about the thing.

 

please explain more
I have a deep need to invest myself in this suddenly

 

Sure thing. So the idea behind reconstructionist polytheism is that it's an attempt to rebuild older now lost religions. These are considered new religions and we know that things will never be perfect, but still you work at it. So with reconstructionism you're doing a lot of digging through anthropology journals, history books, mythology, folklore, collections of prayers and so on. For example, a lot of Gaelic recon types read the Carmina Gadelica which is a book of Christian prayers and blessings. Now a lot of these are in fact just Christian from top to bottom. Some prayers and blessings however have elements from Gaelic polytheistic cosmology and such. So you'll occasionally find a few that mention, say, the sky, sea, and land and swearing upon those. Which is a thing that Gaelic polytheists have been recorded as doing. So those prayers might get reworked into something more fitting, while the more strictly and originally Christian in all ways prayers are left be. That's just one example of how the practice works.

Outside of studying you have the more...religiousy practice bits? I personally consider study a very religious action, but I do know that some people feel the recon faiths are just studying. It's not. So with the Gaelic thing we attempt to recreate old holidays, for example. Based on what we know of the mythology, archaeological findings, and the folk Christianity of the Gaelic nations we have our own ways to celebrate, say, Samhain. Carrying around black handled knives while out, getting a guise ready, carving lanterns to scare off the Folk who are feeling gutsy and so on. So it's definitely an active faith. Just it kind of takes a long while to get there and most of what you're doing is stuff you cobbled together yourself. While there is a lot of similarities between individual recon polytheists of a certain stripe and while we do share shit, there isn't nearly the sort of unity that the organized faiths like Anglicanism would have. At all.

Gaelic recon meanwhile is an attempt to recreate the polytheistic religion of the Isle of Man, Ireland, and Scotland. So the Gaelic nations. Basic cosmology wise we don't have a creation myth. At all. Some like to think up theories based on what we do know of the gods and of other European faiths but really the truth is we honestly don't know. We do feel relatively certain that the Gaels broke up reality into a series of three spheres, the Three Realms you might hear people talk about. Sky, sea, and air. There's also the Otherworld, which is the realm of the Fair Folk and the gods. Interpretations on it vary. Personally I view it not so much as a distinct and separate plane of existence so much as I do that it is a layer of the world before us that we simply can't comprehend. It's right before our eyes and sometimes, just sometimes, we accidentally slip into it. There are some notable areas in Otherworld. Tír na nÓg, the Island of the Young, for example. Which is a blessed island of the gods that supposedly exists to the west of Ireland. Think of it kind of like Aman from Lord of the Rings if you're a Tolkien type? Sailors would go looking for it and there's even a number of Catholic Irish stories about the searches called imramma. To be invited to it is a great honor. Manannán mac Lír, the sea god, meanwhile has his own island called Mag Mell, the Beautiful Planes. He hides this behind his great mists. Then there is Tech nDuinn, the House of Donn. Donn is the father of the Irish and possibly all of humanity depending on how you interpret things. He is also the lord of the underworld and when you die you make a stop at his home before being sent on your proper way. Death wise there are two main ideas on what happens. Either you go through Donn's home and end up to your final place to live forever, or you are constantly reborn after spending some time resting with Donn. With the rebirth root some believe that the ultimate end goal is to become so enlightened and honored that you earn yourself a place in Tír na nÓg, thus ending your rounds of rebirth as a human.

Which leads to the sorts of beings, I suppose. There are four main groups of being by my count with the Gaelic thing. You have humans, animals, the Fair Folk, and the fomoirí. Humans and animals are kind of obvious yes. The Fair Folk are meanwhile what you might call fairies, as well as a good deal of the gods. They can take a variety of forms and many are shapeshifters. There is no real way to judge what is and isn't one of their kind save that it feels like the Fair Folk. These beings are also called the Good People and the Aós Sí, the Mound People. That latter name comes from the fact that they live underground commonly as part of a deal they made with humans on Ireland. Another thing to point out is that many Gaelic polytheists are animists. So things like rivers and the land itself have spirits. The Paps of Anu are so named because they are quite literally the Morrígan's breasts and the rivers are often considered to be women. Which leaves us with the fomorians. They are a race of giants and a sort of godly folk in their own right. They used to rule over Ireland before being defeated finally by the Tuatha de Danaan. They're often depicted as being unruly, malevolent and so on. But they aren't all awful, as seen with Lugh's mother Ethliu/Ethniu. Now there is also the issue of just what a god is. God seems to be partly a sort of species, but more it is something you earn. Donn used to be a human but through his acts he transcended and became a god. Bríghid is one of the Fair Folk and she is counted as a god, but your average every day leprechaun would not be considered a god. Because what has he done? Well? Bríghid though. Bríghid has done some amazing things and has earned the honor and respect of others.

Value wise honor is very important. Personal honor. Everyone is said to have face and you essentially have to keep face. This includes things like being brave, honest, proud and boastful, and hospitable. The hospitality thing in particular is very, very important. You are to be kind and welcoming to your guests and more than willing to have guests. People failing at hospitality has lead to things like horrible curses and the creation of satire as a magical weapon in Ireland. It also plays into why you do not eat offerings you give to the Fair Folk. Reason number one is that they eat the toradh, or pith, of the substance making it unsafe for human consumption. Reason number two is because imagine if someone invited you to their house and gave you some cake. Then while you were eating that cake they took it out of your hands and then ate it in front of you. There's other reasons we give them shit, namely a contract the Gaels made with the, but hospitality is one of the big things that stands out for everyone. They do not take shit. They will not take shit. Do not fuck with the Fair Folk. Another big thing is the idea of kings. Kings are a big thing in Irish myth. To be a king a man had to be perfect in both physical and mental stature in myth. Being a king isn't so much something you inherit, as it is earned by action. There are many kings among the gods. They are kings for reasons and to be treated with respect. I call Lugh my lord partly out of Buddhist convention (it's just a title of respect) and partly because that is what he is. Or was, technically. Swearing fealty to the kings and former kings I think is important.

Now the offering thing is honestly probably the most key and basic bit of actually practicing so I will write a bit about now. Basically you offer the Fair Folk and your ancestors things out of respect and hospitality. They've no reason to help you or be friendly with you, if you yourself are a shitty neighbor. Another reason is the contract I mentioned. Basically the kings of man and fae agreed that so long as humans gave them tithes of milk and grain in tribute then the Fair Folk would live under the ground and let man have Ireland. Keeping that sort of thing in mind is very important I feel. Now the things that you can offer are milk, water, alcohol (in the US it is considered proper practice to let this evaporate), foodstuffs, coins and tools that are bent, art, poetry, and so on. With food offerings you bury, drown, or burn them. With drink you pour it into the soil unless it is alcohol and you live in the US due to respecting native American traditions. When you are out if you have a beverage you pour out a bit of it to the Fair Folk and your ancestors before you drink it. You may also want to carry around something like nuts to offer too. Coins you toss in bodies of waters. Wishing wells and fountains are your best friends there. Or you can make one yourself with some water I suppose. Tools and such are buried or kept and never used again. Once given those things are no longer yours.

Also this is kind of getting carried away but I think one important thing to mention before I stop is that words have power. Literal actual magical power. Poetry was the literal law of the land in Ireland for years. Satire was believed not just to be embarrassing but potentially fatal curses. The end of the world and prophecies are often relayed through verse. Words mean a whole hell of a lot. Take them seriously. Perhaps take up poetry or get to reading poetry, especially that from the Gaelic countries.

There's quite a bit else, but this does cover a lot of what I think is particularly important and needs to be mentioned right away.

 

this is all really interesting!!
I want to involve myself in Gaelic reconstructionist polytheism now.

 

Well if you're curious I can lead you to some places to find resources. The Mary Jones archive is one of the best resources you'll have for things like the mythical writings. There is also CELT, which is an online library for Celtic texts. Everything from religion, to law, to history can be found there. Library Ireland notably has a lot of books and such too. Project Gutenberg is also always your friend.

Good starter books though? The Religion of the Ancient Celts by J.A MacCulloch and Celtic Gods and Heroes by Marie-Louise Sjoestedt are very nice books for getting a grasp on the myths and the people in them. I know the MacCulloch text you can find on Project Gutenberg. W.Y. Evan Wentz's The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries is also a good book for getting a grip on fairy belief and practice. These books are all kind of dated, which should be kept in mind. I know the MacCulloch text calls Lugh a sun god, for example, even though Lugh likely wasn't a sun god at all. More a god of winds, storms, and skillfulness.

In terms of people you can poke at, both myself and Lib practice it. I know I'm open to questions. Tumblr blog wise you there are a few who will answer questions and who have nice indexes. Korrigantsionnach, houndbitch, echtrai, and themodernsouthernpolytheist are some names. Feannog is another person that comes to mind. They have a very interesting interpretation on the Morrígan's relation to Cú Chulainn that I think is worth looking into.

There's also Gaol Naofa but they are kind of...Shitty as a group. They've got a track record with things like sexism and transphobia and they also fall into the category of...not racial supremacists but they are obsessed with a PURE AND UNTAINTED GAELICNESS that I just do not think is at all realistic. They do have some nice resources though and at the very least you can mine the bibliographies of their articles for stuff to read. Tairis is a blog run by one of them and again while it does have nice information wariness should be kept in mind. There are some people who are working on resource lists and guides and the like to offer people a place to go other than Gaol Naofa. You might be interested in it. It's very new and people are still working on it but it is a thing that exists: https://guidetogaelicpolytheism.wordpress.com

 

I clearly have some reading and research to do!
thanks!!

 

I am also always open to questions.

 

Yeah it seems kind of daunting, but it's not too bad. Just take a look at the MacCulloch book or something and maybe read some of the myths themselves. Thomas Kinsella's translation of Táin bó Cuailgne is lovely if you want to go that route.

Though really everyone should read it because it involves things like a war being started because a queen needs to keep face in an argument with her husband and Cú Chulainn hitting someone so hard that he literally knocks the shit out of them.

 

I'm going to read ALL the things
I haven't been this excited to read things in like a year

 

*is very quietly also a GaelPol over here*
*quietly also drops another resource ae knows that some people have been developing as an alternative to Gaol Naofa*
gaelpol101.tumblr.com

i am somewhat happy to answer questions, but my practice is partly informed by study, but largely informed by what my family has experienced and agreed is significant for us. which is, i guess, very much in the spirit of the faith?

 

I FORGOT TO TALK ABOUT FAMILY. FUCK.

So yeah family is a big thing. But it's not just blood family, per se. Adoption and fostering is a huge thing in the stories, and Irish culture. But yeah ancestor veneration and looking after your own play into things.

 

got it
....does that mean I have to get along with my blood family or can I just adopt an entirely new family
I always get a bit leery of things where family is big and important because I grew up in a church that was like "your mother and father are above all except God, you must respect them above everything but God" and I'm like....my parents are abusive, did you guys just not plan for that orrrrrrrrrrr

 

Gods no, my blood family is also abusive. So like, fuck them.

It tends to be more that your found family matters. The people you choose to take care of are important; the people you choose to bond with. That sort of thing.

 

excellent
I can roll with that
I actually very much like that

 

Oh yeah. Family are the people you choose to surround yourself with who support you. And historically speaking, abusing people loses you the right to call them family unless proper restitution is made.

 

excellent, then I very much like this definition of family
this is a definition of family I can work with.

 

That reminds me that when I was in middle school I knew this Catholic family. They basically took me in and kind of informally adopted me. The father told me that if my father was an abusive shitlord then he was no father of mine and that the whole honoring him thing didn't apply. Instead this man became my father figure for years. I loved that man a lot. I still do. This seems to be the general stance with the family thing by gaelpols from what I've seen. It means a lot, but it's a two way street and the people you find mean more than blood.