EXACTLY. That's actually one of the fundamental themes running through GaelPol that I love... everything is a two way street, pretty much. If you support your family, they support you. If you give offerings to the gods, they give blessings to you. If you offer hospitality to a stranger, they have to behave as a good guest (traditionally, gifts of food and shelter are met with news and entertainment). Everything has give and take structured in, and if one person doesn't hold up their end, it's not only okay but EXPECTED for the other person to say "hey, this isn't cool, you're breaking our social agreement."
I really like this philosophy two-way streets are my favorite things especially when if you don't hold up your end the other person can be like "yo you are breaking our social agreement and this is not chill" I enjoy agreements with give and take because then it's not just one person always giving it's an agreement that benefits everyone involved and I like things like that
It's a lovely one, and that sort of spirit really helps me out I feel. Just the way it is in the community, however small it is. I'm used to Buddhism, the organized religion. So on holidays and such you go to temple with lots of people. You go there weekly and hang out with the same people. Organized religions have this big and lovely sense of community to them that means a lotto me. So however small the community is it does mean a lot to me that this is a value stressed in gaelpol and that there are in fact people who are super good about it. The gods themselves are rather family like in my experience as well? Some others share such UPG, unverified personal gnosis, as well. Though it seems to vary from person to person. Some report an almost motherly Morrígan (in her own unique Morrígan way though). Many others do not. Seems to vary based on what people need and what they respond to and how they act in exchange. Still it's nice.
huh, that's really cool! I've never really experienced a sense of community with organized religion before, but it sounds nice!
Yay religion thread! I'm on my way to work right now, which on Sunday is at an Anglo-Catholic church in Northwest London. It is...well, its CofE, but it would like to be Catholic. The service is certainly more Catholic than any Catholic service I've been to. (Sung Latin chant and creed, incense, altar boys, the whole shebang.) I think the Catholics don't have to try so hard, because they know they're Catholic.
This sounds very much like my experience of High Church Anglicanism. My brother-in-law converted from Catholicism to Anglicanism, but he's very much about the Catholic dressings... and dresses :P (he's a chorister. At Christmas his sister told him he had mud on his jeans from walking the dog, while he was about to go to work; he said 'Good thing I wear a dress to work! It's excellent. I should have discovered dresses earlier, really.' and his mum laughed and said 'You discovered dresses at birth, you little poof!') (this was all in jest, the fam is totally accepting of everybody's massive gayness and I suspect his mum has a shade of her own gayness somewhere in there too) But yeah. The wedding was described by some of my more Christian cousins as 'as High Church as you can get without actually being Catholic'. I suspect an actual Catholic event would not have tried so hard :P Also, Aondeug's post was all very interesting, but has particularly sparked my interest. Do tell!
Seconding the satire elaboration request! Also, the priest at work mentioned in the notices that tomorrow marks the beginning of the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity 2016, except for the denominations which celebrate it at different times, which I thought was pretty funny.
(By the way, @a tiny mushroom, I checked out the Konkokyo website and am very very interested and moved by it. This might be another 'existing is stressing me out, and as an autistic ex-cultist I respond to that by seeking religions/philosophies that could impose structure on my life' moment, so I'm gonna be cautious, but let's just say I am Very Interested.)
So, I'm vaguely agnostic Jewish - I was Bat Mitzvahed, my house has a mezuzah on the doorframe, but I don't go to synagogue and am not quite sure whether I believe in an omnipotent, benevolent God. I mean, there's a lot that I like in the traditions and history (most especially, the idea that it's an obligation to know the Torah, and that it's an GOOD thing to argue and debate the laws therein, to the point where God apparently loves it when he's outmatched) but. I dunno.
@Elph/@EulersBidentity - yeah the church I work at has pretty much all the trappings too. I suspect we'd sing as much as we could in Latin if the new priest could have his way with the congregation...who had the same priest for 30 years.
...What's with Anglican churches wanting to be Catholic? My family just left (after about eight years of membership) a tiny Anglican church, and I think the only reason our priest wasn't RC was because divorced people can't be ordained in the RC church (I think). We're going to an Episcopalian church now, which is funny - see my dad grew up Episcopalian/Charismatic, my mom grew up Southern Baptist, and when I was born they were attending a Charismatic church. But my dad was in the military and we moved about every three years, and we wound up switching denominations almost every time we moved. So we went Charismatic, then Baptist, then Reformed Presbyterian, then Episcopalian, then Anglican, and now we're back to Episcopalian (except for one of my brothers, who attends a non-denom Pentacostalist/Charistmatic church. I don't much care what denomination or church I go to, as long as my family's happy there. I mean, I'm a Christian, and I do have preferences as far as services and theology go, but I tend to worry less about church stuff and more about application in my daily life. Plus, lots of churches wig me out. There's a ton of emphasis on spiritual experiences in a lot of churches, and I don't have those, at all. The closest thing I've had to a spiritual experience was feeling comforted and peaceful when, after a few minutes of worrying that I wasn't a Good Christian because I don't get all excited about my religion, I realised that the worrying meant I was invested enough to care about getting it right, so it was okay. Anyway ... yeah. I look at going to church as a kind of expression of devotion/loyalty, because while I like the routine of the services and occasionally get to hear an interesting sermon, it's mostly a drain on me. The whole thing is kind of like having an invisible friend who doesn't talk to me, but instead routes his messages through a variety of people who, I am quite sure, often get the message completely mixed up. With the result that having any kind of conversation involves, on my end, decoding the message by comparing it to previously-decoded messages and ancient texts and checking for contradictions and commonalities, and then more or less just making up my own mind on what the message was supposed to say and hoping I'm right. ...Sometimes I think it would be easier if I could do the spiritual-experience thing and get direct personal revelations. On the other hand, the one time I tried to do that, all I got was "apologise to @Key", which may very well have just been my own conscience because sometimes I am very mean to Key and I know it.
So satire as a weapon. Now one day the fomorians had again a high king over Ireland. This was Bres, the half-fomoiri and half-sí. Bres was known for favoring his kin over the Fair Folk and gods. He forced them to pay high tithes and treated them almost as slave workers. It was bad times to be one of the Fair Folk then. Still he was king and he had yet to be defeated. One day a Fair Folk poet visited Bres's palace. As was customary the poet was invited inside and was offered a meal. A king must be able to feed any and all of his guests, after all. The poet did not get a proper meal though. He was given the crusts of old bread and not even a glass of water. When he asked for ale his request was rudely denied by Bres. Incredibly insulted the poet stood up and then recited a satire mocking Bres and his court. This poem also foretold Bres' eventual doom. This poet was the renowned Caoibre of the Tuatha de Danann. Now everything began to go wrong for Bres after that. More people began questioning his authority and his treatment of his guests. What's more the then former king Nuada Airgeatlam of the Tuatha de Danann was finally getting the upper hand in kingship. Nuada finally had his arm of magical silver replaced by an actual flesh and blood hand. Once again physically pure he was viable for the kingship again and replaced Bres. Later on during the Second Battle of Mag Tuireadh Bres would be found by Lugh Lhamfhada undefended and alone. Bres begged for his life before Lugh, and Lugh agreed so long as he would share his secrets of agriculture with the Tuatha de Danann. He did. Following this and elsewhere in the battle Nuada was slain by Lugh's fomorian grandfather, Balor of the Accursed Eye. To avenge his fallen grandfather and live up to the prophecy that prompted Balor to attempt his murder Lugh fought with Balor. He threw either his spear or a stone with a sling and blinded Balor's one good eye. He then beheaded his former grandfather. For this and other actions Lugh became the new High King. Though Bres had already lost his title of king and his people had lost control of the island Bres' fate was not yet through. The satire that cursed him was still at work. So one day Lugh mixed a brew of poisonous flowers and offered Bres a place at his table. He was offered this drink, and due to geas oaths and the fact that Lugh was, well, Lugh he could not refuse the hospitality. Bres drank it without hesitation and he died on the spot. And this all happened because he couldn't feed a poet right and said poet wrote a satire about him proclaiming his doom. Court poetry was a big thing in real life Ireland too. Most of our examples of old Irish poems are written under the patronage of kings. Poets also served as lawmen, judges, juries, and religious officials. Becoming a bone fide poet was also one of the ways you could actually rise up in Irish society. The Olamhs, a sort of poetic chief/lawyer, held rank and influence around the level of the rí, the kings. You were assured meals and if you were actually good at the thing you could get nice shit and rise up in status. Possibly partly because poets were highly feared. The idea of deadly poets is revisited in other myths, as well. Queen Madb bitches to Feidelm and demands she offer her a favorable prophecy, for example. Because Madb knows that Feidelm's words will in fact be her ruin. The Morrígan's number shows up numerous times in the story as well, giving further prophetic poems that bring doom to Ireland and glory to Ulster. While I can't think of another magical satire off the top of my head, it should be noted that yeah poetry was serious business and could guide fate.
Anglican Churches: For when you want Catholicism without the Catholicism. @Elph: I have a buttload of links and pdfs of things if you want them! I'm going to Japan on exchange this year so I finally get to actually go to a Konko church and I am stupidly excited about this >.>;
Heyo. Atheist who tries not to be annoying and tries to keep my more militants atheist friends from generalizing about religion too much. But I've also been too fucked over mentally by my mom's brand of Catholic to really be monotheist so if I ever did believe I'd be some kind of pagan but I'm also worried about doing that wrong because what if I offend another pagan person? /ramble ramble
Well, one nice thing about the pagan thing is that you don't necessarily need to believe in or do anything with gods. You could, for example, be a fairy faith and nothing but sort of person. Or someone who just does kitchen magic or what have you. There's a lot of ways to be pagan and no really right way. You've got options. Lots of them. Some people are going to be sticklers about this of course but still. It doesn't actually mean any one thing.
But there are all these communities and stuff and what if I'm doing it wrong? Like what you've said about hellenistic pagan communities that you've talked about have emphasis on stuff I wouldn't even consider important in my own worship of those gods (I would probably worship hephaestus/the muses) like hubris or something. Bluh. (Sorry for whining about this)
No, no it's fine. Religion things are tough and I'll be the first to admit that the pagan tag can be very aggressive. To say the least. Anyway. There are quite a few communities, yes. Which often don't agree with one another. There are non-reconstructionist ways to worship the Theoi I'm sure. The reconstructionists being the ones who are super into the piety thing. If you're interested in the muses though winebrightruby knows quite a bit about them and honors them. She's also a poet and has books of devotional poetry to the Theoi published. She has a list of resources on her blog for the Hellenism thing and she does appear to be fine enough with answering questions. She is a recon type from what I know though. Still she does have a lot of info which you could use in finding out your own thing. She's also shown up a few times on the polytheist forum and has some stuff written there. As do others. The forum is mostly dead and quiet but still there is stuff to read there and quite a few different kinds of pagans there.
i'm not really quite sure what i am i don't really believe in any major monotheistic religions, as i tend to find a lot pf the mythology too hard for me to swallow, and anything with too strong of a sense for community strikes me as stifling and uncomfortable but i also feel like outright athiesm is too hasty of a conclusion to jump to, considering there is still more to this world than meets the eye; there are anomalous happenings in the world that people experience that seem to contradict current scientific knowledge, and i find it difficult to believe that everyone who experiences these events are mistaken. while i'm sure there must be explanations for these exceptions to reality, i see no reason to conclude that whatever is the cause lf them has any sense of order or thought. i also find it unlikely that they'd all fit under one, catch-all, interconnected explanation or mythology so i just don't really know what i would call myself, or if there is any group out there that thinks similarly to me. it's confusing.
