Homestuck Classpects (or Titles, whatever you prefer)

No, I think that makes total sense. That's what I was trying to get at by saying classpect still doesn't account for the individual differences people bring to the table. Does it come across otherwise?

I'd say that the system itself is so multi-faceted that even within it there's a huge range of possibilities depending on the individual, and even that can't and won't cover everything (nor should it be assumed to), especially more day-to-day things. In any case, I'd agree that thinking of classpect as determining things is pretty faulty. The person determines the classpect, not the other way around.

 

So, if I've understood you right, you're saying that in a hypothetical scenario, where someone who knows everything about classpects is exposed to only the part of Rose's actions typically classified as "inverting", they would believe her to be a Witch of Void?

Because if so, that might be where the basic disagreement lies. I think our hypothetical observer would classify her as a Seer of Light (if anything at all, you can't really determine someone's classpect based on a few hours of their life)

(I'm hoping I don't come off too "I'm right, you're wrong" here, this is just my interpretation)

 

I honestly don't know. I don't think I can hypothesize about someone who knew everything about classpect, since we're not anywhere close to that. I guess if I had to say, then probably not. But that just doesn't seem like a situation that will actually happen. Inversion is a concept that I think works alright with the level of information we have now, but that information is pretty pitiful in comparison with what we could potentially know.

Like I said, it's not as though I think she actually became a Witch of Void, it's just that she's "imitating" one. Not intentionally, but in a similar sense to animals and insects imitating their environment or another animal for camouflage. It's not that they're literally becoming their surroundings or the other animal--and in comparison to someone who knew everything about classpects, an entomologist or whatever would probably be able to tell them apart--but at first glance they're hard to distinguish.

Mostly I'm thinking of inversion as a tool for understanding something complicated that happens with people (in a similar way to, say... classpect!). It's not that there's a literal process of inversion going on somewhere, or that there's some moment when you flip from one classpect to another (because, again, always the same classpect... unless it changed over a long period of time, but that really does take a long time and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be changing to an opposing classpect and you'd probably keep the same aspect anyways. digressing here). But, like any simple explanation of a more complex process, it works until it doesn't, but up until that point it's a useful way of interpreting things.

(and no, you're definitely not coming off that way. I've been really enjoying this! it's difficult to figure out boundaries of things if there isn't an opposing point to locate yourself in relation to. and I don't know anyone offline who cares enough about this to really discus it beyond some one-word description stuff. I mean, I was happily anticipating coming back to this all day, so I don't think offending me is something you need to worry about.)

 

Oh, and @Raire , do you still want the Witch of Blood vs Sylph of Hope/Heart thoughts? Because if so then I'll get working on those after dinner.

 

Huh. So my understanding of inversion would be more like a predictor of sorts. No it doesn't define you, but it could be used as a baseline to predict a character's extreme reaction. Useful for say... Developing a character, but not so useful for defining one. If that makes any sense? I'm not familiar at all with it, so I may be completely off base.

Question: How does inversion relate to Gamzee's character arc? What is his inversion?

 

@Rezlian
Yes, I would love those! Perhaps instead of Sylph of Heart (since you have already done that for Re Allyssa), would Witch of Blood vs Sylph of Hope/Breath be workable? A friend recently said she could see me as one too, and now I'm musing even more possibilities <_<

 

heheh, I've done Sylph of Breath too (maybe I should put a list/links of these in the about me area? I never know what's supposed to go in those things anyways), but I will copy them over and edit them/add any thoughts I have in relation to your specific combination of potential classpects. This is something I've yet to be bothered by thinking too much on, so you're not bugging me or anything (plus, my sister will be happy about me having something written out for Blood).

We'll see how far I get tonight, but one of my classes tomorrow morning is cancelled, so I'll definitely have it done by then.

 

I see myself as a witch of rage. I tend to identify a lot with the three canon witches and I love manipulating aspects of something, so that's where I get the class. As for aspect, I associate rage with anger and resignation for the way things are as well as an aggressive resistance to changing views, not to mention religious ties.

For class inversions, I've got this (link between the two in parentheses):
Prince-Bard (canon)
Thief-Rogue (canon)
Mage-Seer (Magician who acquired learning vs. One who inherently knows)
Maid-Page (Female servant vs. Male servant)
Witch-Sylph ("[Sylph is] Like A Witch But More Magical" ~Kanaya)
Knight-Heir (Warrior who equips self with aspect vs. Passive person who receives their aspect)

 

*jumps up in joy* Yay~

(Sidenote: I have a guilty pleasure regarding Blood in that I love reading about it even if I am never convinced that Blood is Bonds/etc and instead associate it with Mutation/Changes. So like. Reading about blood! Reading about the theories! I love this thread even if I don't comment a lot because I get to read you guys' thoughts and mull them over until I am ready to add to them 0u0)

 

Thanks, Deresto! :)

Re: all:
I don't think she can be a Rogue of Void because then she'd share her descendant's Class, you know? I hadn't considered Thief, though, which is silly.

I don't think she's an Heir. Even though she becomes a 'ghost,' she spends her entire life collecting information that others would rather keep hidden and manipulating it to get what she wants. That's why I think Witch would work as well as Knight.

I think I am leaning more towards Knight, if it's like, she uses that information as a weapon and defends herself and her dancers....

 

Disclaimer that I'm going to end up repeating a lot about how I can be wrong about things, I am not a professional, and you determine your classpect, your classpect does not determine you. (and you are welcome to disagree and argue about things)

Spoiler: Witch of Blood, Sylph of Hope, Sylph of Heart, and Sylph of Breath for Raire

Witch
manipulation (kind of utilizing the overlooked potential in things, moving things around); transforming/changing; arranging/directing/conducting/ordering?/commanding?; tend to repress/suppress/hide things; isolation/detachment?; don't fuck with a Witch

Blood
revolution; mutation; ambition; bonds (not friendship, more like debt/duty, structure); genetics; social expectations/structures; tradition and the breaking or upholding of that; anger? maybe? more like motivation/fiery emotion/vital energy; respect; deliberate, fought-for change/progression

And you made me want to talk about Blood as bonds/mutation/revolution now, so a digression: I think bonds are incredibly integral to Blood, but this comes with some caveats. First is that bonds are not friendship, but more like social contracts and structure, and I really want to emphasize that Blood's not friendship (though it may lend itself *to* friendship occasionally) because I've seen a lot of people say that when there isn't good reasoning for it in my mind, and yet it's always ends up being very divisive. Second is that another integral part of Blood is these bonds being broken. This is where the mutation and revolution part comes in. I think that the whole change/progression thing is basically mutation of the preexisting bonds and structures. But it depends on those structures already being there. Blood isn't about creating brand new things, but mutating/changing what already exists (though this can lead to something even more unexpected than just creating from nothing). But mutation/change/revolution is a huge part of Blood (I'd say as central, though not as pervasive, as the bonds part) and it definitely shouldn't be overlooked. (also, I'm bookmarking your post for the next time someone tries to say Blood is just about *sticking* to structures.)

Sylph
repairing/mending; tending (so healing and nurturing, but also pruning and weeding); fixing (usually to what they think is right); also associated with giving advice, but more informally or interpersonally (so meddling); recreating

Hope
belief; denial; possibility; hope (what a shocker) and positivity; faith; fantasy to an extent, and getting lost in it; stories/myths/heroes; adventure; obliviousness to things that don't fit into beliefs about the world; motivation in a kind of don't give up/get back up after being knocked down way (maybe more perseverance); seeing options or choices out of view of most because they're so improbable; security and happiness through strong beliefs and/or self-delusion; belief making things true; seems related to sexual attraction; isolation maybe?

Heart
the core self/soul that is constant across different situations; identity; individuality; ideals/values; instinct/reflex; likes and dislikes/preferences/interests; desire (and emotions relating to it); romance/relationships? (not in the same sense as the bonds of relationships in Blood, but more emotional how do we feel about each other stuff)

Breath
choice; direction; influence of others (even/especially without intending it?) and being easily influenced; inspiration; freedom from bonds; unstructured-ness; motivation; moving-forward-ness/changeability/progressing (not quite sure what word I'm searching for here); escape/transportation (pchooooo); maybe communication/carrying messages?



Witch of Blood
First off, I really do not want to piss this person off. Then again, I don't want to piss any Witches off. Life advice people: do not get on a Witch's bad side. I don't care what mythology or worldbuilding we're working within, don't do it. You will regret it.

Talk about master manipulator, this person would have a huge influence on the changes in the world around them. It's not that they would be manipulative in the abusive sense (necessarily), but they would just be able to direct the people around them so easily because people would listen to them. Scary as hell in a fight and I would probably admire the shit out of them. Their high motivation and ambition could end up with them always pushing themselves, deeming their weaknesses as faults and mistakes. I can see them being into genetics from the kind of stem-cell research/intentional mutation/influences on evolution part of it. They'd come off really strong though, always directing people around them, and it would give the rest of the group plenty of reason to other them, not wanting them in their personal business. Maybe they'd end up trying to change how everyone else related to them, or how they related to everyone else, but I don't see that going anywhere good. Even if they were successful through brute force, it would only result in the feeling even more isolated despite being surrounded by people. They'd probably have a lot of issues with the more negative parts of themself--things that make them a "mistake"--and would put on a happy face to hide their inner-turmoil about what they see as their faults. They'd be really charismatic and one of the main forces behind any changes in their group.

Sylph of Hope
On the surface they'd be cheery and positive, redirecting the conversation to talk about others' problems instead of their own. They might try to "fix" fantasies by eliminating them or more likely by insisting they be elaborated upon, that nothing can hold you back if you just believe in yourself enough. And that's really great when you need motivation, but it promotes a kind of escapism and denial that isn't going to work long-term. On the other hand, they'd be perfect for those long slogs where everything becomes a hopeless grind or stagnates (like the meteor or battleship). They might be particularly good at helping the inspirational hero of a journey when they've lost all hope. And restoring or maintaining faith in others, ideals, or the adventure of life itself would be important to them. However, they might end up making sure people had the "right" beliefs and motivation, because if you aren't doing it for the right reason, your contributions aren't as valid. And you wouldn't want to be the one to upset their worldview, because they'd lash out hard as a result.

Sylph of Heart
This person would be a good therapist (or just general friend), especially when focussing on people who have no idea where to start because everything has been broken so much or for so long that they don't know what they want from life in the first place. They would likely be expressive and practical in their approach to relationships, with an intuitive sense for how to relate to others. And this may cause them to seem too forward with people who are more reserved. Probably one of the first to know about issues with the relationships going on around them. A lot about a Heart player depends on their personal interests, which would be an integral part of their journey and who they were.

But just because you're a heart player doesn't mean you have an automatic sense of who you are, especially when you're more focused on fixing others first, so they may have to learn to mend/tend their self. This would mean some soul-searching to figure out what they actually value and want, rather than what would help fix those around them. But it could lead to them being too critical of their self and deciding to "fix" themself by pruning the things that aren't desirable. They may spread their self too far in helping others and have none left to just be their own person. So in general, finding a balance between self and the world around them would be a big issue.

Sylph of Breath
They would want to determine what everyone else was doing, but in the sense of "I've got an idea! everyone come with me!" instead of through a meticulous plan. They'd try to get people to be more laid back and to let things go. Excellent at helping people make decisions and a good communicator. If given too much power, they might use it without really thinking through the consequences or with the mindset that their cause is good and right. Tends to see the world as rather black and white. Probably very good at inspiring people and motivating them to be a better/fixed version of themself (which could be good or bad for the person influenced, depending on the Sylph of Breath). Unlike a Sylph of Hope, they wouldn't be so fixed in their beliefs, but they would have a similar sort of denial thing going on.

 

Wait a minute. The Blood as bonds and mutation thing is still bouncing around in my head and it occurred to me that bonds and the breaking of bonds are a huge part of chemistry. And I don't see Blood as romance either, but Karkat's whole deal with romance and romcoms makes a lot of sense looking at it like that, because he'd be looking at the chemistry between characters (also he gets shipped with everyone). And maybe Kankri would be one of the nobel gasses because he has trouble bonding with anyone? Huh. I may be reaching too far here, I'll have to think about this more.

 

Your sylph of hope sounds like most of tumblr's sjw contingent, and also scary as hell. Very cool.

 

duuude this works really well for eridan too! he kills other trolls' lusii for feferi, or "destroys" their "hope"

 

I think I am a Witch of Light. I have strong feelings about the knowledge, spotlight/obscurity and importance theme that Light (and Void) have, but I think I'm closer to Light side of it. Witch would be sufficiently challenging. I tend to be passive, sometimes dangerously passive, so I would probably need a class that tells me to get off my butt and change things.

Differet tests give me wildly differing results, though. I've gotten Page of Light, Knight of Heart, Heir of Breath and probably a bunch of others.

 

@Rezlian
I never got around to responding because I am a champion procrastinator, even at things I enjoy, but thank you so much for your help and your post!
I am still stuck because all of these fit to some point, until something that is kind of off. I'm a bit more active than a sylph, too passive for a witch, kind of, and all these aspects make sense from what I can see and project. Still, most of my friends seem to concentrate on me as a sylph, possibly due to my role in my friendships, so I think there is one more for the Sylph club!