Let us tell you about Homestuck

Discussion in 'Fan Town' started by Wiwaxia, Apr 12, 2015.

  1. KarrinBlue

    KarrinBlue Magical Girl Intern

    I mean the extended zodiac is p clearly not canon - if Karkat's sign was listed as definitely belonging to a lime then it would defeat the entire point - that it was made up as a secret symbol for the sufferists.
     
  2. ChelG

    ChelG Well-Known Member

    Obviously it's not entirely canon, no, but there DOES seem to be a running theme of the trolls ghosting the aspects of their Homestuck caste-mates.
     
  3. chaoticArbiter

    chaoticArbiter an actual shiny eevee (destroyer of worlds)

    I mean, that could be coincidence thus far. also there are a LOT of trolls, it could also just be we've met ones with more obvious relation to the aspect of their caste's "True Sign". I'm not sure Ardata and Xefros prove a pattern, or even that creation necessarily proves a link to Space--imho, there are other creation-linked aspects, and while the jades we've met do care for a thing that makes matter instead of a like...abstract concept or something, I'm not sure that's really proof they're all ghosting Space either. Space is more than just creation, if you ask me. and even if all the Friendsim trolls ghost their caste's True Sign aspect, that doesn't mean it rings true across all Alternia either. strictly speaking, we still have a pretty limited selection of trolls to look at in comparison to how many it seems there's implied to be. it could be these ones do ghost particular aspects that are linked to their caste's True Sign, but they could also just be outliers compared to all of troll society.
     
    • Like x 1
  4. ChelG

    ChelG Well-Known Member

    It's not just them. Xefros and Diemen both make repeated references to Time, Xefros worrying about it running out and Diemen looking on the bright side about his short life. Elwurd steals Bronya's stuff; Remele steals for a living; Ardata kidnaps and kills, which is stealing life in a way. Skylla is worried about losing her freedom, having to detach from her lusus, and having to spend her life moving crates. Vikare is using his Mind to focus on flight and a subconscious desire to detach/escape from the empire. Zebruh's Voiding out the truth of how much harm he's causing, and Amisia's attempts to create produce only Void, i.e. nothing.
     
  5. chaoticArbiter

    chaoticArbiter an actual shiny eevee (destroyer of worlds)

    ....okay, my first comment on this is theft doesn't link to Light so much as just a class, so I would heavily disagree on your link for Elwurd and Remele, especially since Light is like, luck and information, and stealing for a living might have something to do with luck, but stealing your ex's clothes has...nothing to do with Light, imo. like, at all.

    and given how most lowbloods have short lives, I'm not sure I'd really consider "worry about time" to be a Time link either. they're rustbloods. they're the shortest-lived caste. of course they're gonna worry about or think about how much time they have; compared to a lot of other trolls, they have so little.

    I can kind of see the link for the others, but like, again: thousands of trolls. small swatch. I disagree that castes as a whole are pushed into ghosting the True Sign's aspect. and I don't find some of what you've said compelling; the Time thing in relation to rustbloods and the talk of how much time they have left seems like just a given of things since they don't have much time, you haven't at all touched on the olives, who should theoretically be linked to Heart, and what about yellows and Doom? and again, thievery isn't the same as Light. Thief is a class, stealing could be linked to anything. hell, maybe Elwurd stealing objects makes her Space-linked, I'd consider that over Light-linked in your given example.

    I could buy maybe some castes get pushed more towards certain aspects because of their "typical" job (like purples and Rage, because subjuggulators, or even yellows who have psionics and Doom, because their fate is sealed, although that's still not all yellows), but I disagree with your overall conclusion, and also some of your supporting evidence.
     
    • Agree x 3
  6. ChelG

    ChelG Well-Known Member

    I did mention that I think they're also being pushed into classes, i.e. ceruleans being Thief. Wasn't clear there, though, 'scuse me. Mindfang acted like a Thief, but was at heart a Sylph. I'm not sure of connections to Light for Remele and Elwurd, it's not one of the aspects I'm good at spotting, but I can ask revolutionaryduelist.

    Isn't their short lifespan in itself a link to Time? Having a reason for the link doesn't mean the link isn't there.

    Well, the trolls we see consistently appear to be having this happen, and considering how complex Homestuck was and how many tiny details turned out to be important, I'm inclined to think it isn't an accident.

    Yellows: Cirava's Hope is restricted by their fear of suffering Doom again for their art and they bring Doom on the player if offended; Kuprum has found his Hope in his potential Doom of helsmanship; Folykl is just plain Doomed. Olives; Konyyl feels unworthy of using her aspect of Light, the aspect of thinking and knowledge, her Self i.e. Heart, and leaves it to her romantic interest Azdaja; Polypa has given up her Heart-coded interest in romantic relationships in favour of working by her Self. As for Tagora, he's practically more Mind than Space; his focus is on living by his wits and the ability to put on a convincing front.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  7. chaoticArbiter

    chaoticArbiter an actual shiny eevee (destroyer of worlds)

    I don't think biology is the same as castes being pushed toward things societally. and if castes were being pushed towards certain aspects, I would expect it to have to do with Doc Scratch, not the planet itself, because Doc Scratch is responsible for prepping them for SBURB, and prepping for SBURB would, imho, be the only reason to push particular castes toward something. but rustbloods being short-lived is not, from what I recall, strictly an Alternian thing. so no, I don't think that would count.

    I also agree it is likely not an accident but I don't agree that makes it a thing across the board. there could be a Hiveswap specific reason for this being a thing, and we do not have enough data to say it's not.

    also, being pushed towards specific classes is a totally separate thing from pushing towards particular aspects, and I'm not seeing the push of classes for other castes. most of them ping as classes that are not matching at all what the main Homestuck 12 are. and given that Remele and Elwurd have already broken the aspect pattern and others seem to break the class pattern, I kinda think this is not indicative of society at large but perhaps instead these specific trolls.

    I also feel like a lot of these connections could be connected to other aspects besides the one you've gone with, as well. Polypa could be connected to Rage, since that is an aspect commonly thought to be related to possibilities and negative emotions and seeing only one path. Polypa, from what I've seen, could connect to having closed herself and her possibilities off based on a negative thing that happened and negative feelings that created.

    I also think "works alone" is a pretty tenuous connection to Heart, which is, yes, the aspect of the Self, but also the aspect of identity and caring. honestly, I consider it the most relationship-oriented aspect after Blood--but Polypa chooses, by and large, to work alone. that doesn't scream Heart to me. if anything, it seems more like she could have been Heart and got pushed away from that.

    I also wouldn't consider "not wanting to accept the thing that makes you, you" Heart-connected. that's....just an internal struggle with your own aspect. there are at least two classes which are thought to struggle with or disguise their internal self. is every Knight Heart-connected now because they tend to wear masks and not be comfortable revealing their self?

    ....I am also not sure I would agree an aspect is what makes you you, it's more like the aspect is a decent representation of some parts of you. players are more than just their aspect, though.

    also, at least two of the yellowblood connections to Doom could be explained by the classes they must have but that we don't know. Eridan ghosts Doom because of his class, not because he got pushed into ghosting Doom. maybe Cirava and Kuprum ghost Doom because of their classes rather than because they're yellow.

    and still, this could be a Hiveswap-specific thing. maybe these trolls were made this way because of something to do with Hiveswap rather than Alternian culture. I mean, I've seen nothing to indicate at large that olives and ceruleans and indigos are pushed into jobs or positions that necessarily connect them to Heart or Light or Void, and I'm still not accepting a biological thing that existed on Alternia and Beforus for a Time connection, so I've seen nothing indicating rust connection to Time across the board either. forced aspect connections aren't needed unless you're prepping for SBURB and these aspects have to match up with these blood colors for Some Reason, so they'd have to be societally pushed, and yet Alternian and Beforan rustbloods are both suggested to be short-lived.

    like, look. I can appreciate the theory. but I do not think we have enough info about things true across the board for specifically Alternian members of each caste to say that Alternia is specifically trying to push certain caste members into particular aspects. and I see no reason to push someone towards an aspect unless you know SBURB will happen and you think that aspect needs to go to that caste--so this has kind of got to be a societally-based Doc-Scratch-caused thing, and he wasn't around for Beforus. the evidence of a caste being pushed to an aspect therefore should come solely from Alternia. unless you think there's some reason that this SHOULD correlate into Beforus.

    I can't comment on Mindfang because I don't remember enough of her to know if I would agree with you that she seemed like a Thief of Light or not.
     
    • Like x 2
  8. Lizardlicks

    Lizardlicks Friendly Neighborhood Lizard

    Signups for Drone Season are now CLOSED! We ended with 98 participants, a lot of them first-timers!
     
    • Winner x 5
  9. chaoticArbiter

    chaoticArbiter an actual shiny eevee (destroyer of worlds)

  10. keltka

    keltka the green and brown one

    POLYSWAP GOES LIVE TOMORROW!

    ETA: whenever people have everything done, checked, and SUBMITTED
     
    • Winner x 2
    • Like x 1
  11. Nobody's Home

    Nobody's Home I'm a Greg Coded Tom Girl

  12. artistformerlyknownasdave

    artistformerlyknownasdave revenge of ricky schrödinger

    can this go to the hiveswap thread
     
    • Agree x 2
  13. ChelG

    ChelG Well-Known Member

    I did ask if anyone thought it should. Mods, can you take care of that?
     
  14. artistformerlyknownasdave

    artistformerlyknownasdave revenge of ricky schrödinger

    i'm aware you asked, that's why i'm letting you know i'd like it to move
    ???
     
  15. keltka

    keltka the green and brown one

    • Winner x 4
  16. emcapi

    emcapi Well-Known Member

    • Winner x 4
    • Like x 1
  17. chaoticArbiter

    chaoticArbiter an actual shiny eevee (destroyer of worlds)

    ...I love and need it
     
  18. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    I exist.
     
    • Witnessed x 4
  19. Snitchanon

    Snitchanon What's a mod to a nonbeliever.

    Done.
     
    • Like x 2
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