Discussion in 'Fan Town' started by Wiwaxia, Apr 12, 2015.
I love the Lalondes so much okay. Seeing them being all adorkable together made me smile so much. <3
I have arrived at act 5.
The first two were bit of a slog, but super excited to see the trolls, omg.
holy fucking shit i am so mad at vriska right now.
cw: vriska (vriska)
yes exactly. i was like "oh jeez this is so outta left field for me but i like it oops".
@Deresto tavros was describing jake's positive qualities and i was like, "ooooooh, someone has a crush"
that was exactly when it started being a thing for me
Yeah, they really seem to be on the same page about a lot of things.
@Wiwaxia was that pun intended or not?
("the same page," haha, they're both Pages - jake of Hope and tavros of Breath)
@unknownanonymous I hope you're not insinuating i would ever breathe so much as a word of a pun.
@Wiwaxia insinuating? i think i was a bit more blatant than that. XD
I'm actually really fucking upset right now for the first time in a long time. Something is Wrong. Like, W-R-O-N-G wrong. There's something rotten in the state of the retcon. Something bad is happening and I can't pinpoint what, besides Vriska, and it's making me uncomfy.
Darl linked me to the John/Dave/Karkat dialoglog to help me feel better about the most recent turn of events and I just got even more disturbed.
Spoiler: abuse cycle
Mostly because the depiction of kismessitude is the same as the one we saw in the Terezi/Gamzee black romance. "I hate him so much, but that hate is what keeps me going back to him for the abuse that makes me hate him." Similarly with John and Terezi: "She annoys me so much, but I still keep going back to her for that abuse because then I feel connected to her." It's disturbing. Especially when Karkat says that it should feel fucked up. I. No? No. Romance should not feel painful or fucked up. Kismessitude is romance. Kismessitude is not the abuse cycle. Or at least I hope to God it's not, because what I've seen so far indicates that it is.
I'm very upsetti spaghetti about this, and it's kind of making me want to cry a lot and leave the fandom because it's just disturbing as all hell.
Spoiler: talking about why I don't think it's meant to be read that way. dunno if you're up for that or not, so fair warning
I think the difference there is that Terezi is not actually being abusive, just (from John's perspective at least) annoying. I actually read that pesterlog as shooting down a lot of abusive-looking fanon misconceptions of blackrom.
(specifically, noting that healthy blackrom is based on mutual respect as well as mutual aggravation, and that it's not FULL THROTTLE HATE ALL THE TIME)
I mean, yeah, the "it's supposed to feel fucked up" thing is a little... fucked up, but consider that Karkat has gotten a lot of his quadrant background from romance movies, and we all know how good those are at promoting healthy relationship models.
I mean, you're probably right. I'm narratively nauseated right now from the deliberate Wrong that's been put into the retcon, because I think it's made to make us feel like something is wrong without telling us exactly what it is. And the Wrong is skeeving me out in many different ways, and this pesterlog that was supposed to make me feel better didn't make me feel better at all, mostly because one of the first things I saw was Vriska basically reminding Karkat that she can see/hear him, and that Karkat immediately modified his behavior. That was some scary-ass shit.
Part of the problem is that looking at how the Alternia trolls do black romance is like looking at fourth graders dating to determine what marriage is like. They're children playing at hate and they're getting themselves hurt and getting some really fucked up ideas entrenched in their heads, especially since they have no adult role models on their planet and only have, like you pointed out, romance movies to guide them in this process.
And as far as John and Terezi goes, uh, she killed him once. Because she thought it was funny. My fave is problematic: she's a sociopath. And I read the pesterlog more as John being uncomfortable that his response to Terezi's actions could be read romantically by anyone for any reason. (Arospec/acespec John forever.) And Karkat and Dave persisted in making John continue to be uncomfortable over this, and I'm not quite sure why.
I don't see John and Terezi as having any kind of concrete rivalry (what would it be over? how do they compete?) and so I can't see how this would be healthy at all. Then again, I'm still pretty set on kismessitude as rivalry, seeing as that's how the Hussler described it in his conglomerate romance-explaining block paragraphs. Rivalry means you want to see the other person be the best, even if it means needling them (gently) and competing with them (hard) to get them there, and even though you, too, simultaneously want to be the best. Where is that in tezgam? Where is that in johntez?
tl;dr that was fucked up. that fucked me up
also, i know virtually nothing about abuse really, but... i interpreted "it's supposed to feel fucked up" as something along the lines of "romantic feelings are confusing and you often have no idea what to do with them and just... so many feelings why why why life is hard"
which, i note, is based on my very abuse-free experience, so... feel free to take it with a lot of salt
Yeah, part of my issue is that I had to un-learn a lot of "romantic" concepts like "love hurts." Uh, no? No, it shouldn't. "It's supposed to feel fucked up" as a message I got from peers and the media is part of what led to me feeling trapped in a bad relationship. Did you know it's not normal for your SO to call you a bitch when you're upset about something and want to talk about it? That's fucked up, and I felt fucked up, but "it's supposed to feel fucked up." That's not an okay message.
To see that, on top of Vriska's already-horrible bullshit that's what the evil part of the back of my mind says to me every day, was I think the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm freaking out over this right now for pretty much no reason other than "squicked horribly by what's taking place" and it's pretty much entirely personal. I feel like I'm being gaslighted by this retcon which is ridiculous and I need to sleep and remember that it's not all about me.
Spoiler: spoilered because i don't want to come across as NO YOU'RE READING IT WRONG
I read that mostly as "John's got a cruuu~uuush" ribbing on their part, plus Karkat being all "YOU SAID QUADRANTS I AM HERE TO TALK ABOUT QUADRANTS"
I don't know that Karkat was seriously encouraging him to pursue a black relationship with Terezi. And if he did, the rivalry wouldn't just happen. I mean like with any romance it's going to take work and getting to know eachother.
Also, yeah, the Terezi killing John thing what fucked right the hell up, but neither Dave nor John nor Karkat really ever knew that John or experienced it firsthand, so
I'd kinda expect them to be blase about it.
Still holding out hope for a legit Vriska redemption arc, but she's gonna need her ass kicked into the next week for that to happen, I think.
(preferably by John, Terezi and/or a Page)
fakeedit: oh jeez, that's awful. I'm so sorry. *offers hugs*
If it helps, just remember that Vriska is objectively wrong about everything forever and, therefore, so is your evil jerkbrain.
Holding out hope for Tavjapesprite post-Tavrossprite-and-Jake-hug wrecking Vriska's shit with their Pagey powers. Darl used the phrase "bitch singularity" to describe Vriska's behavior but no, the real bitch singularity would be if those two destroyed her. I'm not even sorry about wanting this.
damn it I have to start rereading homestuck hopefully I will be caught up in time for some kick ass page action
man I already think Vriska is the worst and I am still in act 5.
but omg Aradia and Kanaya tho.
Kintsugi is based on the premise that nothing anyone can do or say makes it okay to treat them like trash. By logging in, you affirm that you understand this to be the foundational premise of the community. More on our community philosophy here.
Separate names with a comma.