Many things [depression and jobs and family and just fuck it]

Ok, dad walked over and asked if I had five minutes to talk, and I said yes.

I have been trying to pay attention to what my face was doing and I think I was doing my "KEEPING EVERYTHING TIGHTLY PACKED UNDER NEUTRAL EXPRESSION BUT WITH FLAT EYES".

So he started by saying that. Ok wow how did I forget exactly how this started it's not even been seven minutes what the fuck brain what the fuck. I'll have ot do a summary instead of trying to keep to the original set of lines and interactions :/
So basically, he said that the expression and my reaction when I rejected his hug will stay with him forever and hurt him. That he has never seen me have such an expression of panic, fear, and "repudio" (google says that is rejection), and that it hurt him very very deeply, and that he will be keeping emotionally distant from me to avoid getting hurt again. He said that he doesn't know what he did, as far as he can tell he never did anything to me but that he can't deal with that and he will give me everything I need. At some point my eyes started welling up with tears (wow dramatic description) but no tears actually fell and then he left. I don't know if I said anything? WHY CAN'T I REMEMBER THIS WAS TEN MINUTES AGO.

Then he came back to say that if I ever need to talk to him, that he will listen, if it helps, but that the image, my expression at that moment, will stay with him forever. The damage is done. He left then.

I wanna curl up and cry and at the same time I am not feeling anything. Is this boundary setting?

 

Ok he just came down again to say that he doesn't want mom to suffer from this so that he will tell her when he can figure it out, that he can't hide this. I said no. My expression was definitely sad at this point, I think.
He said that I can talk to him whenever, that it might even help him, to understand why I hate him and I interrupted to say that I don't hate him! And he jut looked very sad and away and said that my words and my eyes are saying very different things. I repeated again, more strongly, that I don't hate him. I think I might be angry he isn't accepting what I said? WAs angry? He said again that what my soul and my eyes are saying are different, and that until I can explain to him why I reacted that way he will have a hard time believing I don't hate him.

I am not quite ok right now.

 

He just came back down and I only had a few tears so it wasnt bad enough for him to see
And he said he wanted to clarify
That it doesn’t mean he doesn’t love me or care for me, that he wants to help me, but that he doesn’t know how to because everytime he tries he hurts me. But that he loves me. and he reminded me to have dinner

 

I'm no expert but I agree that your dad does not sound like a man who had depression but then "got over it." He sounds like a depressed man whose coping mechanisms are unhealthy for him and the people that he loves.
You have my sympathy.

 

Not to mention that actual depression is not a thing you just "get over"

 

@Soul Yeah, agreed. My point was that it's very possible Raire's father did (does?) legitimately suffer from depression -- it just was not adequately treated.

Not that it's impossible for some people to improve through their own efforts (my father reinvented something close to cognitive-behavioral therapy, from his description of it, to deal with his anxiety issues). And life circumstances change and make it easier to deal with, or harder, sometimes.

But he's irritable and suffers bouts of self-loathing. I'm very familiar with the feeling of I fucked up now everyone hates me and I don't even know what I did wrong. Which makes it harder to distinguish what I actually did wrong from the brain telling me that I'm inherently a piece of shit.

The thing is that his issues are different from Raire's and probably don't have similar solutions.

 

Thank you @The Frood Abides. My mom and I definitely agree that we think something is going on his way, but he doesn't seem to be really dealing with it.

He doesn't usually do self loathing though, that is very new actually. He more usually went off to do loner solitary glare monoword sulking. In the past year I have noticed that he has started to go "Yes, I get it, I am always the bad guy!" but mom and I effectively just groan and eye roll when he does that because he is effectively ignoring what we said to aggrandize things to make himself look like the victim, so it isn't very effective beyond exasperating us. That said, he has learned to stop before he winds up too badly. Thankfully it is actually somewhat common (see the time when I freaked out and dodged away as one time), I just don't expect it yet.

@Soul
I don't know if I ever shared what he's told me about getting through his slump?

My dad lived on his own for college in the USA, working and studying full time to pay living and college since his dad wasn't supporting him at all at the time and getting to the states had been expensive enough. Then, he got a diagnosis of possible cancer. Stomach cancer. For two years or so he had monthly check ups with this possible cancer, and he never told his family. Not even by letter, since back in the day phone calls were really expensive. I guess he just didn't want to bother his family? I don't know. Basically, one day he walked in to the clinic. I think his stress had reached such a point that he was having chest pains, I don't remember exactly what (how do I not remember?). He waited four hours, and in the last twenty minutes or so went up to ask again to be attended. Then after some more time, he got up, grabbed a chair, and smashed the glass doors of the clinic, then sat down again. That certainly got their attention.

They told him he was overworked and needed to rest some and sent him home. He paid for the door installation. It's always impacted me, because my dad smashing something like that is just so... strange. It makes me sad. I can't really imagine it, not him as a young man.

Turns out he didn't have cancer, but he did have seven benign masses that were finally removed, alongside with half his stomach and his entire duodenum (the first part of the intestines).

 

So, a more important update on everything! Last Thursday morning, mom got back from the States from her two week long work trip, and basically passed out in bed at like 8 am when she got home. Dad woke me at 9 as usual, and then asked if I'd be willing to talk. I said yes and followed him to another room, and he told me that he would really like to know what it was that he did that made me react like that. His tone was different... I feel a bit like less hurt and huffy about it, as in, not disappointed/upset/disbelieving as his tone was before, but more serious and quiet. So I sat down and stared at my hands (glared, probably, I think I had an intense >:| face on) and started by stating that no, I am not repulsed by him, and I do not hate him, for starters. That sometimes, when he blows his gasket and gets overblown, and it is too much, has been too common, and I just shrink and feel small and just want to hide and I am so tired of this and it affects me, and that trying to throw things at me doesn't work because all I do is desperately want to HIDE and so I freeze up! I freeze up and try to wait for it to get by. That it is unfair that he reacts like this to small things and we can never predict when something small will affect him and when he'll go on with life as usual. That usually trying to fight or argue back just leads to escalation, and that in the end all that is left is to wait for it to pass.

I'm having trouble remembering exactly how the conversation went down too. Either my memore is worsening or I am self editing weirdly. Or I am only starting to notice now that my memory was always bad for these things.

Anyways, he listened intently, and said he would work to reduce his outbursts. That he was sorry he hurt me and that he loves me and wants to support me. That he really wanted me to try meditation and yoga, maybe with him, to see if this will help me. That he really worries becuase I sleep in naturally and miss sunlight, or what little daylight there is now that it is winter, and that he thinks a routine will help me. To please tell him when he starts acting out.

There was more but I am sleepy and can't remember but we ended up well and hugged and things have been good since then.

Good night.

 

Thanks to everyone.

Things have been ridiculously better and having mom back has been a breath and a half. We still have to take care of dad some (he shouldn't stand up for long, it doesn't do him good and he needs to recover in order to have a final operation, but don't worry, it isn't a really serious thing, it's just really, really inconvenient and painful and will be recurring if he doesn't get this operation done), but we're all a lot happier, even if mom does get exasperated (rightly) with dad sometimes. Dad is being a lot more careful with me and in being nice, and not as much with mom, but I told mom that she should probably create boundaries and that if we work together dad will probably get used to respecting them.

It's also been a nice break from pressure lately.

I also saw my psych recently (the med shrink? God I always forget terms) in the first time in a while as a follow up to see how I'd be doing on my meds after a really good stable period, and I told her about how easily I got broken up when mom and I had the conversation that prompted the creation of this thread, how I'd been freezing up with my dad and my problems with him, and how, while I have gotten a lot of my basic day to day stuff down a lot better now and recovered those relatively fast from the big downer with mom, that I keep getting stuck in doing emails and job application and search stuff and keep procrastinating the kind of meditative-tap exercises I should do that I know help me but I haven't done in over a month because I keep putting it off (I am so angry at myself about this. It's like I keep trying to lift my arms or looking away and WOOPS ITS BED TIME I HAVEN'T DONE IT YET). She brought up two key points:
1) She is concerned that I haven't been seeing a therapist in a long time, since I got back from Bolivia. She suggested that instead of working with my previous therapist, who uses psychoanalysis (a therapy that concentrates more on long term resolution of issues through talking and illumination of things, but that can take years), to work with someone else who does psychotherapy (which seems to have more immediate results and concentrates more on how to cope/adapt to a thing to deal with it at the time, or maybe more directly?). I have two phone numbers to call that I... need to schedule an appointment with at least one of the ladies to start seeing here. Mom and dad agree with this. Dad thinks it is crucial that I talk to someone, whether it is like, say, a Buddhist monk (he wants me to try meditation at the Buddhist temple my high school friend's mom lives in, which is like an hour and a half away with good traffic), or anyone else (He called it a "confessor" but he said that with less of the connotations of shame and guilt of the Catholic practice).
2) She is worried about how "fragile" I am and how easily a single blow destabilized my work like that, since life has that, and decided to put me on Welbutrin (some of you might have already seen my post asking you guys for your experiences with it). She explained that my current med, Effexor, works with two neurotransmitters, seratonina and norepi... phi... whatever! But that depression meds work with another one too, dopamine. She thinks that the Welbutrin will work well to supplement the Effexor, so to speak, and as of today I have started taking it on a trial month, to email her if anything important comes up.

I talked with mom and dad about these things, and they expressed worries about the med increase. For starters, dad has been doing some research on dysthimia, and he said that he had read that the majority of cases result in leaving meds about two years after starting, and that I am already at that threshold. Dad is additionally worried about the reported decreased effectivity of meds with time, and that I'd become dependent on something that would slowly work less and less for me. They also are still not sure that I really have depression, based on the energy worker lady I was seeing in Bolivia. I like her a lot, and she also did study Psychology for many years and got a PHD before getting into energy work, but apparently she told my cousin who told my mom who told me that I don't have Depression, but have trouble managing my stress. And like. The meditation/affirmation/reaffirmation exercises she gave me are very, very helpful, and she helped me work through some things and come back way better than I was before, but I don't think I agree. So at the least, I'm going to check in with my psych to confirm my diagnosis of dysthimia, start taking welbutrin to cover that base (parents said it was my decision despite their unease and respected when I said that I want to see if it helps).

I'm also going to find someplace to do yoga and also start up meditation in an effort to increase my general mental health and reach a better healthy basis, and dad too. I think it could be a good bonding activity with dad and he's been thinking about this and talking about meditation for a while, so I think he also knows that it would probably help him manage his own flare ups better.

I also asked my psych for a recommendation for a therapist that works with family so dad and I can work on our own stuff and we can have a more neutral third party help us work through the ways we hurt each other, whether I am in denial or hiding behind excuses, and about dad's difficulties in disordered environments and in controlling how things work exactly in the kitchen, for example.

This week has been a really nice rest week that I've needed. I feel so much better. And starting tomorrow, I think it will be good to start making the calls and arranging the things we agreed on so I can start working some more on the next stage of fulfilling what I want and need.

Because despite all this stuff, I'm going to be a biology researcher and help my family up.

 

I'm glad you're doing so much better.
As for medications, yeah, in my case, I seem to have to be on a new medication every few years. It can be frustrating finding meds that work for you, and sometimes really scary if they put you on the wrong one, but the good thing is, there are so many different medications that doctors can prescribe you, and they're coming up with new ones all the time. I've heard that sometimes you can cycle through the same few medications every few years, but I'm not entirely sure, haven't actually discussed that with my doctors. Being on more meds can also be costly, but if they help, I feel it is more than worth it.

Have you already discussed family therapy with your dad? Does he seem amenable to the idea? I know sometimes parents don't like to acknowledge that they can benefit from that kind of help, and are resistant, so if he is willing to do that, that's really good.

I wish you tons of luck in finding those things and people that you need to help you, and again, I am so happy to know that you've been improving. You are an awesome person and you deserve all the best.

 

I really feel for you; I know it's hard to deal with parents when you both have some mental health issues and a sort of incompatible brain-weird. I think from reading your posts you really love your dad and he loves you too, he just blows up and says unfortunate things out of frustration.

My family was very hard on me to do well in acedemics: I ended up having to quit college due to my health issues. It took a long time to deal with my mother's disappointment at not finishing college. I am successful now in a different way, and I still love my mom.
But she is not the only person who's opinion matters. My own opinion of myself matters, and I think I'm okay! And you're okay too :-) don't forget!

I think the yoga and meditation is a great idea, and making it a family affair with your dad is good too! Yoga has helped me a lot, when I have joint pain or don't feel well it's a very nice light stretching and workout even if you're tired. But it's not a replacement for medications, doctors, and therapists. Things like mediation and yoga another good technique to have in your "toolbox" to fix and fight your depression.

You're working hard at this, and depression isn't a magic thing you can get over fast. It's a long hard slog and you're doing very well. Hugs from me!

 

Thanks for the well wishes. I haven't posted since things have been going well and I've been trying to focus on doing the big translation jobs I just got (I am being really slow and procrastinating on the 60 something page book I have to translate, bluh!). Things are going well.
I've started yoga and the first week I didn't feel anything from it, just weird pressure/movement in my back. No improved mood, no improved energy, etc. It's mostly, once a week the instructor (who does "Yogatherapy" and has chosen stuff specifically to work with me with my dysthimia) comes over and guides me through a session and leaves me a set to do every day that week. But yesterday, there was a HUGE difference, probably because we worked on my breathing this time and it was lovely. It turns out that I have created a habit of breathing very little/shallowly, and so we worked until I was having these huge, full breaths that expanded chest to pelvis area. It was both weird and great, because I liked feeling the breathing going through, but also I had to fight against an instinct that basically screamed "you are being too loud! You are taking up too much space! You shouldn't breathe so much" every step of the way. I think this might be why I am so good at accidentally scaring people out - I hide my presence subconsciously and so they don't notice me walk into a room or walk past and freak out to see me standing by looking at a thing or something because I came out of nowhere.

I haven't done biking in like, three weeks, mostly because of time. My responsibilities have increased loads since my poor dogs got fungus, since I have to give them their pills and spray the affected areas twice a day, and the youngest dog gets too nervous to do this easily (aiming for the spot on his head when he's twisting around in my hold is very hard, especially as I don't want to spray his face). Between that, translating, and trying to do yoga, I've been very bad at doing the bike thing, which is a) expensive for us since that means I take a taxi to classes, and b) a decrease in exercise for me. I'm still not sure how I'm going to manage this properly. My instinct says "don't do yoga on days you bike" but that is dumb because I would end up not doing yoga five days a week, so I'm going to have to suck it up.

Sadly, that is one of my problems so far. I have a hard time getting around to doing the yoga, or anything at all. It's like laziness and procrastination mixing up into a big "uuuugh do I haaaave tooo" and dragging my heels like a teenager. I think it might get better as I start actually enjoying yoga more and looking forwards to it, but it's still an issue. I'm thinking that dealing with my procrastination is one of the big things I have to deal with.

I still haven't called the psychotherapist to schedule an appointment, I should do that today and get started on it.

Also, dad news! Dad is recovering from a second surgery that should finish to fix what happened so he doesn't ever need more attention for what happened, and doing pretty well. The doc said yesterday that dad's recovery is super great and fast, but that he still can't sit more than an hour a day or drive. He's very frustrated about this and getting very bored. About twenty minutes ago he found the lid of one of our vacuum containers (it's like... a plastic box for rice or other staples with a little rubber top that you push down to push air out and preserve the ingredients as good as possible? It has a second top on that to increase the protection. We had to buy a bunch of those since Lima has a climate that encourages moths and they were getting into ALL our food in the despensa, which is like the... the larder?) and got annoyed and started going all "can't take care of things and nobody in this family cares about keeping things in order" so I was going "ok dad. Dad. Dad calm down. This is dumb. The lid was dirty so we washed it. Mom will put it back on its place when she gets back from work. I know you are frustrated but this is... Dad. Dad calm down this is dumb." and then get fed up and went "ok if you are going to overreact and start puteando I'm just going to leave you alone to it I don't need to put up with this shit or you mismanaging your feelings" and left to do my own stuff (eat breakfast). He came by like ten minutes later and apologized and said I was right that he was letting his feelings spew over into other things, so I patted him and told him that I sympathized with his feelings of frustration and boredom. So that is a good improvement! He's done things like that twice unprompted that I can remember right off my head since my last post, so I think he's learning to notice the pattern in himself, if not always to redirect it.

I haven't broached family therapy yet, since I want to focus on starting my own stuff first, but perhaps I can use this to get him to start seeing someone on the future to help teach him how to manage his feelings and frustrations better. In the meantime, mom and I will have to brainstorm if we can get a project or something to entertain him since he is fed up with watching tv and reading books.

I gotta shower and then get dressed to sweat loads on the way to class anyways :D See you!

 

Uugh don't wanna bike to class. I gotta tho. I gotta I gotta I gotta.
*glares at nothing*

 

I'm glad things are getting better for you! And I'm glad the dogs and papa are feeling better.

As for yoga, breathing is a huge part of it. When I do yoga, I try to not scare other people but I breathe really loud. Also, I sometimes groan when I get a nice stretch in (happy groan!). Also, there is one pose called cobra (I think) where you get to hiss like a snake. remember, it's okay to take up space and exist!

Once a yoga instructor told me: "When you are doing this yoga pose right now, it is okay to simply exist. A flower simply exists and is lovely for doing so. The flower doesn't have to move but it has to breathe!" I found that to be inspiring and relaxing.

Good luck! Sounds like you are very busy but doing well!

 

Thank you Kay! I'm still having trouble making sure I breathe properly, and in disciplining myself to actually do the yoga. I've been prioritizing my spoons for the big translation I have right now, but I'm beginning to realize that my focus should be in my routine and life, plus I have some leeway on turning this translation a bit late since it is so big.

I went and met with a new shrink today, who works with CBT. It went rather well and I have set up an appointment for next week, and she asked me to think what my objectives for the therapy are in preparation for our next meeting, and to also think about increasing my in person social activities to help increase some positive feedback from there. Her office (consultation place? There is a name for this I am sure. Consultory? No my spell check says that isn't it) is even in easy biking distance from home so it will be easy to go to it.

 

I'm going to be doing this fancy shmancy alternative thing called "Rebirthing" tomorrow. It apparently works through breathing to help you process stuff from your past... to... face and kind of get through it? Kind of relive things one has suppressed and then work them through so they don't weigh on one.
Part of me is just "srsly, we are doing this, seriously" in a frankly reasonably skeptic tone because frankly it sounds like a lot of hogswash to me and the stuff I found online is not encouraging. Like, even though the person who will do this is like, a licensed psychologist who now works on "yogatherapy" most of the time, this? Really?!

Another part of me is just "eh, can't hurt to try, might even get a nice placebo effect from it and fool yourself into facing something about yourself".

Another, the part that likes the romanticism in minerals and crystals and healing and who has seen some weird stuff before is going "yeh ok makes sense".

I suppose I'll let you all know how it goes tomorrow.

 

Pfft ok, so apparently mom didn't do an appointment after I said "huh we should do Thursday or Friday" like I thought she had, so when the instructor came for her weekly session with us/me (mom goes first, then I go because we get different poses) and asked me at the end when I wanted to do I was caught wrong footed and went and scheduled it for two weeks instead of like.. say tomorrow. And I was originally "uh, next week?" but she's travelling on Thursday to another city so she can't, so we agreed for later.

Mom just arrived from work (pretty dang late actually it is nearly 8pm O_O) and was a bit frustrated when arriving because "your dad decided not to take those breathing exercises yet! Can you believe it?". (Dad has been really stressed and also will be doing yoga when he heals, but I had the idea that he could get some breathing exercises from the yoga instructor so he could start working on releasing stress and stuff). I pointed out that well, he'd talked with the instructor, and since he isn't allowed to sit on hard surfaces lying on one on his back will probably make his recovery take longer and more painful (for the record he is recovering very, very well and is rarely in pain! The last check up the doc said he was impressed at how well it has been going).

She asked me what was up with the whole reawakening thing and not even thinking really "oh we've scheduled it in two weeks, since she is travelling next Thursday" and she was visibly angry and was talking to herself "pace of a snail! Yes, you can see you really want to improve yes!" I immediately instinctively hunched a bit, noticed I did that, remembered that mom had used my hunching/decreasing my size as a way to test my stress and sometimes stop what was going on for me, hunched more in a manipulative move, then unhunched feeling guilty about being manipulative there.

She calmed down pretty quickly anywyas, and gave me a piece of chocolate (we've been treating ourselves to one a day, roughly) and told me to reschedule. So now I get to email and go "sooo can you do tomorrow afternoon or the day before you travel?

... I'm feeling ok all things told, it was just that it was a short period of going "!!! D:" and now I am back to normal.

 

Glad things are getting back to normal!

And don't worry about waiting two weeks, not a big deal. If you're busy two weeks passes quickly !

 

I wrote to the instructor to reschedule to next week. I guess that means I should do the homework the instructor set me this weekend :3