Well, Gai and Kakashi had to come from somewhere, right? Suna also was in an interesting position politically in that game because their daimyo was passively trying to destroy the village via cutting off funding. Usually he'd be assassinated or otherwise removed but Suna hadn't really subverted the feudal system the way that others had (Kumo's daimyo is terrified of them and will do whatever A wants, Konoha's daimyo hasn't done anything without Sarutobi's permission/advice in the last three generations, which is why they're the two strongest villages since they actually leverage the economy of their nation-state, not just the village), so they'd increasingly resort to shady shit like hiring Akatsuki (the PCs) to frame a minor village for taking in their rogue ninjas, and spending obscene amounts of money and manpower on their fancy ninja science and expensive stuff like puppets and fancy new poisons instead of trying to develop their own economy like Konoha and Iwa had during Sarutobi and Oniki's tenures, but were still in a deteriorating state which resulted in a lot of the more promising ninjas that they'd invested so much into just leaving because they knew Suna couldn't really stop them and they weren't given enough incentive to stay. At one point half the player characters were rogue Suna ninja.
Meanwhile I'm gonna guess Kiri was, as always, an absolute shambles That sounds like a really fun game This makes a ton of sense, especially with two thirds of the Legendary Sannin fucked off to parts unknown, the remaining third a traitor, and the other best ninja from that generation, Sakumo Hatake, in the ground. (Which, on the long list of really sad but forgotten things in nart is pretty high) Itachi actually didn't kill Shisui, Shisui lost an eye to Danzo, gave the other to Itachi, and then threw himself in the river with Itachi watching. That's how Itachi got his Mangekyo. I remember cause it actually made me feel kinda bad for Itachi even though I don't like him. Maybe they were trying to step up training to some degree, and that's why Kakashi and Gai were jounin-sensei instead of doing regular ninja work or being Hokage themselves
oh god Naruto fandom. I remember back when there were only 3 episodes of Shippuden... also i read so much 'hinata's kidnapping by Kumo was successful and she's a badass in this timeline' fic back in the day good god. a lot of hinata fic in general.
Ok this was really interesting and something I hadn't known about at all! There's a lot of worldbuilding in the game I was completely unaware of. Ok that makes sense, and I can accept that. Though I can see Gai wanting to be a jounin sensei in the first place, what with this enthusiasm for YOUTH.
Oh god yes. Civil war, Yagura conducting increasingly ridiculous purges. The six-tails jinchuriiki tried to run away and Akatsuki had to drag him back for money. The rebels and Yagura both hired Akatsuki to hit each other, meanwhile the daimyo, who didn't trust either of them, hired Akatsuki as bodyguards; I was plotting on hunting down Mei, the rebel leader, to implant her heart into my apprentice to give them access to her dual bloodlines and then use the forbidden technique Suigetsu had on them to give them the power to turn into solid acid, but the game ended before I got the chance. We had two members from the land of water: 1: "Land of water? Oh, yeah, it's where I learned the glories of the great Lord Jashin and also killed the remainder of my family, the Kaguya clan!" 2: "Yagura's goons killed everyone that I loved and plundered our temple. There is only one answer: Revolution! I will tear down the ninja world!" (2 later murdered 1, because he was a jashinist) It was indeed a really fun game. Ah, right. Shisui was another messed up kid in a world full of messed up kids, because karate wizard child soldiers are messed up. Ah, it's not all canon-it was a play by post game and we came up with a lot of it ourselves, though the part about Suna's daimyo trying to destroy them via neglect is canon. He got replaced at some point during the timeskip. It doesn't say outright that they had him killed, but I think it's likely.
I love Kiri, it's got so many great plot hooks that just kinda...never were grabbed...I ranted about it at length in the fandom gripes thread but I'm not gonna quote myself again Man, now I want an increasingly crazy Naruto play by post game Karate Wizard Child Soldiers: the Anime!
I've read all of these and frankly this is all great and I have super enjoyed it!!!! Thank you for sharing so much, I am so happy with them!
yo is anyone up for some Sad Haku and Zabuza Fic and Analysis because I'll never stop being emo about them
:3c Spoiler: miniature fic Kakashi went through Zabuza's things, and those of his little apprentice, after their deaths. That's just what ninja do, he'd expect the same if he was killed. Nothing much of interest, mostly weapons and whetstones, a little money, a little food, all pocketed. And also. A pencil, and a piece of paper. Characters written out several times in a row for practice, short meaningless phrases, writing rough but comprehensible. Signed at the bottom, in one blocky character, "Haku". At the other edge of the paper, "Yuki Haku?" And at the very bottom, written very small and very lightly, as if hesitant, "Momochi Haku" Spoiler: very long headcanon/analysis the reason zabuza is so weird about haku absolutely adoring him is that he has no idea what he's supposed to do with it. he must've worked alongside other mist ninja before he defected but you gotta imagine he was given a pretty wide berth given that, you know, he killed an entire graduating class of kids when he was also just a kid. he's probably had sparring partners and comrades, but not friends. he's used to being feared and sometimes respected. probably not really ever trusted. *definitely* not admired. he comes off as the kind of person who knows exactly what kind of bastard he is, and exactly what kind of hellhole he lives in, and being alright with that for the most part. and then there's this gentle, sweet kid (pure of heart, one could say. do you think zabuza compares himself at that age to how haku is? do you think he finds himself wanting?), this delicate little thing who looks at zabuza like he put the damn sun in the sky over being shown the tiniest bit of kindness, and it's gotta throw the guy's whole worldview cockeyed. there shouldn't be able to *be* kids that keep their hearts in the face of this ugly world, and yet that kid is there, tagging along at his heels. he's not above making this child into a weapon (why would he do anything else? that's what happened to him, one way or another), but he's...really up front about that being what he's doing? haku is pliable, eager-to-please, and has zero other options: you'd think he would be even more used and manipulated, but...he's basically got free reign over his actions and a moral compass entirely separate from Zabuza's, he's not just an extension of his boss's will (even if he thinks he is or wants to be, but that's something else altogether.) But zab still bangs on about how this kid is only a tool to him and he totally definitely doesn't care about him at all. You see the truth in his last words, and the really huge thing that underlies their relationship from zab's side: Haku is Good, I'm Not. So all of his talk, and he's really trying to convince himself, not Haku, that that's all their relationship is, because all he knows of himself is a killer and a monster, because he can't understand himself in the context of being kind to someone. And maybe on some level he was trying to drive Haku away, trying to make it clear to him that all the purity and goodness zabuza saw in him would be destroyed living the life of a ninja. at the end of the day, he didn't want to hurt haku. and maybe when he asked this poor kid if he would be a tool and a weapon in exchange for not being alone...maybe part of him was hoping the kid would say no. (Haku, poor lost and lonely Haku, could never have possibly said no. He internalized the idea of being a tool, because in his eyes, it was the only choice that wasn't oblivion. But even if it wasn't much of one, he had a choice. And no matter what, he would choose to stay. That's the tragedy of it.)
@Birdy Now that I'm not sleepy I can compose a reply which is mostly me agreeing because you gave me strong HAKU YOU POOR BBY feels because he was so alone, and he found it so devastating, that he freaking imprinted on Zabuza. And just. That's just super sad. Because Haku deserved better. And Zabuza could have been better if he'd let himself be.
thanks for replying :3c HAKU DID DESERVE BETTER. I could probably fill this thread talking about how Haku deserved better. (Honestly every kid in nart deserved better, and some of the adults too. the shinobi system is broken and terrible but anyway)
Can we talk about how the shinobi system means that children will have killed by the time they are fifteen or sixteen, or even younger depending on the country? Cuz that is fucked up. That is so fucked up. ALSO. Is anyone else here familiar with what happened in the Boruto movie, because while I have not watched it I got spoiled and what I learned was BULLSHIT Spoiler: Boruto In it, we discover that Kaguya Ootsuki, the source of all chakra in the naruto verse and thus the source of all shinobi, is an INTERDIMENSIONAL ALIEN. A FUCKING ALIEN. IT DOESN'T FIT THE STORY. IT DOESN'T FIT THE GENRE. IT JUST BROKE MY DISBELIEF SO BADLY THAT I WILL RAGE
The plot of "The Last" is also wild. Spoiler: The Last It has a hollow moon. The moon is hollow and the home to people related to the Hyugas. Or well, technically descendants of one of the Ootsuki brothers. It has an artificial sun just hanging in the center of the moon. It's just. No. That's not how shit works. My disbelief was stretched too far. It feels like Kishimoto was trying too hard to come up with twists and just added this completely unnecessary shit.
Right?!? And like I thought for so long that the manga was building up to Naruto taking down the system and enforcing meaningful change because literally every villain except Orochimaru has a motivation amounting to "was screwed up by the ninja system" and Pain's entire plan is destroy the system by replacing it with MAD which would horrifyingly be objectively better than what they have. Except he just...takes over as Hokage and all that geopolitics and societal fucked-up-ness was shelved so we could get a really bland happy ending.
