Not sure where else to put this.

I would like an apology for assuming that I'm out for punishment and official legislation because I am criticizing racism on Kintsugi, yes, especially because "more official rules" has literally never been my position in this thread.

 

Alright, thank you.

 

Whew, I've been gone for awhile. I don't know that I can address every single post here but I'll try to deal with a few.

My thoughts on rules: they exist already, and a few are pretty generally understood (fights and sorting out interpersonal conflict should be taken to TCHGB, screenshotting posts in ITA generally isn't ok.) There's a lack of consensus for other things (screenshotting posts in brainbent).
There are no rules that will erase conflict, I'm pretty sure we can all agree on that. I don't even think the aim of ruled should really be to erase conflict; I'm thinking more along the lines of what @Zibanu is saying, of laying out a protocol for forum behavior, like dealing with conflict or responding to vagueing or screenshotting posts.
In the case of something like the gills scenario or other situations where someone is clearly past the point of thinking rationally, I think temporary thread locking might be a good idea; the person(s) who are acting in distressing ways are not in a place to carry on debate, and continued attempts to argue just cause further distress to them and others. I suspect sometimes arguing continues way past the point of anything productive because of Need To Be Right.

Yeah, we definitely got sidetracked from all this. I don't mind the rules derail, it's relevant, but we have been moving away from discussion of site culture.

THANK YOU for bringing this up. Seriously, thank you. This one's a pretty big issue imo.

I don't really mind; this is half ventspace half discussionspace, so discussion is welcome.

 

Can I ask where the white guilt stuff happens? I don't go into Up the People if it's there, and I haven't noticed it as a definite trend in FID, although I admit it's probable I just haven't been registering individual instances as a trend.

Basically, I believe it happens but more details would be nice.

 

It pops up all over the site, really; I see it a lot in tumblr.txt and people's vent threads.
(Don't do a lot of venturing into Up The People, so I can't say whether it happens there.)

 

Oh, okay, I only read a few vent threads and mostly skim tumblr.txt. Although if people have racial scrupulousity their vent threads seem to be an appropriate place to discuss that?

 

Yeah, the recent discussion of allies in tumblr.txt brought up a bunch of it. I think it's fine in vent threads, but I have very little energy or desire to validate it elsewhere.

 

I've seen some "Oh, I'm such a bad person for being white, someone tell me it's ok to be white" and I just :///////

 

I mean that sounds like scrupulousity to me? Like don't get me wrong I see how that's uncomfortable and if someone was derailing conversations about race with that it'd be downright offensive and inappropriate and a derailing tactic. But intrusive thoughts are intrusive thoughts.

 

oh phew okay cool

 

i'm interested having a discussion if the white guilt ins vent threads aren't directly tied to Up the People discussions. if there are other reasons, i'd like to hear your opinion on them?

 

not directly white guilt but ive seen (esp in recent discussion of allies in tumblr.txt) some equating disability with race, in the sense that (my perception was) people were saying that being white and disabled means you know more/the same about marginalization as a poc. they are both marginalizations, but they are different and imo not interchangeable in that way.

that also throws disabled people of color under the bus. im doing a bad job at articulating this but i wanted to bring it back up

 

It's called "oppression olympics". Competing for who is the most oppressed. It's a cute way of dividing marginalized people so the people that think they are 'right' don't have to fight us, we're too busy fighting ourselves.

 

i just said that they were both marginalazations, but they work in different ways. i said that because i wanted to clarify that i was not trying to do the oppression olympics

 

Yeah, I get that. I'm still very uncomfortable with putting those thoughts out there in a way that either results in poc feeling obligated to protect white feelings or a bunch of white people reassuring each other about how it's ok to be white.

I'm having a hard time parsing this; I've already stated I don't look around much in Up The People?

Yeah, that's important.

I really strongly dislike the phrase "oppression olympics" because I typically see it pulled out when a marginalized person does something harmful (ie cis lgbp people being transphobic, white women being racist) and they respond with "Why can't we all just work together and be nice? Don't play oppression olympics, we're all one oppression, the human oppression,"

 

i think it can be a useful phrase but it can also be used to derail important discussions. idk. maybe it used to be a useful phrase and it isn't anymore?

 

I dislike it myself for the same reason.
But it applies too often to be ignored. I see it mostly in the visible disability / invisible disability circles (since I am in both) and see them fighting each other instead of against the systems that make their lives harder.

 

Yeah fair enough. I just think it's important to note that mental-illness related scrupulousity isn't quite the same thing as bog-standard white guilt even if the results can be pretty similar. That's also part of why I think vent threads are an okay place for that because I guess I feel there's less expectations of 'you have to act on this for me'?

Ah. Yeeeah, that's... bad. I mean I'm a queer disabled woman okay, I'm not exactly Johnny Privilege, but the way things interact aren't the same. And like you can be disadvantaged in one way and still bigoted in another. Intersectionality is important.

Thanks to both of you for clarifying for me, btw!

 

sorry for quoting a part that wasn't directed at me, but what scenarios are you specifically referring to? i have to admit i'm guilty of needing to be reassured about my skin color, but it's due to trauma. is my voicing my feelings wrong, and if so, is it because of the above statement or something else?