Not sure where else to put this.

do you mind if i come out and say that i agree with a whole lot of the shit you're saying here, including a fair amount of the stuff that is either directed at me or reflects poorly on me

i'd go through the thread and start liking shit except there is no way i'm not one of the people you hate

 

you actually have some really good points, even if there are still a few i strongly disagree with

 

I don't like you. But I also don't like the people who don't like you. And you probably don't like me. And that's fair.
Clearly there are at least some things we agree on. I'm all for being able to say "Yeah, makes sense" to someone if you agree on something, even if you disagree on everything else.
Feel free to tell me where you think I'm right, or where I'm wrong.

 

I want to amend one thing in this thread from earlier: I am distressed by the thought that people are dead, when it clicks. A large percentage of the time it doesn't. As soon as it feels real, it feels pretty bad.

 

during the ace discourse, you struck me as making an attempt to deliberately misunderstand people's posts. instead of asking for clarification about what people were trying to say when they were not entirely clear about something, it repeatedly seemed as if you would choose to run with the most damning interpretation of what they were trying to say. it sets off red flags for a lot of people when someone seems to be doing stuff like that.

you got a lot better about asking for clarification after i stopped engaging with your posts, however, which is something i don't think i ever acknowledged.

i think that part of it is the fact that someone can be a narcissist or behave in narcissistic ways without actually having npd itself. i know that i myself am guilty of being overly negative toward narcissists. i haven't actually encountered any that don't behave in incredibly shitty ways, and npd people tend to collectively to set off alarm sounds in my head as a result

in my case, the thought that i might be wrong actually feels more relieving to me than likelihood that i am right about someone being manipulative and lying. people act following patterns that set off alarm bells in my head, my paranoia surges, and i become utterly terrified and get stuck in a confirmation loop. it's something i'd rather prefer to avoid, since high levels of paranoia have catastrophic effects on both my mind and body, but it's really hard for me to break out of it when it happens

i'm not sure what that means for me, since i get mean, petty, and defensive, but am also socially inept and struggle with impulse control too

i feel that i might regret asking this, but i only know that gills is probably one, and would like to ask who the other is?

really? maybe it's just because i am dense as shit, but it is not at all obvious to me. i'm not seeing it.

i agree that it would probably be pretty effective, but i think that it is also pretty exhausting to do, especially when the person you are trying to be kind to starts lashing out at you as a result.

normally i'd agree, but i think that there might be good cause for this given the current circumstances

i am guilty of doing this. what i'd prefer more is that we try to avoid doing the sort of stuff people do on tumblr, because i really hate the sort of stuff people do on tumblr but that is quite hard.

it's definitely put me a lot more on edge and has made my already frequent shifts in mood much more rapid and tumultuous

 

I think Unfortunate.

 

(Note: not saying they're dead, just that someone might conclude they are.)

 

...it's true that we stopped getting updates on how unfortunate was doing after a certain point.

i've been holding out hope their condition has improved and that they've taken to posting under a different account, however

 

I agree with several of the points you've made here. Not sure if I'm one of the people you hate, considering I've had no real interaction with you and mostly stay out of the places that have drama. I would go through your points and argue them but frankly I don't have the energy right now. Some things I'm a bit less inclined to agree with you on, but you've made some good points.

 

In hindsight, I'm pretty sure a lot of that was the result of my being autistic and very literal, and the pace at which the thread was moving. At that point in time, I was doing way less snide remarks and way more genuine attempt to engage, but it didn't really work out.

I'm just very in general at the general attitude towards NPD on here: a whole emoji for narcissist, a lot of armchair diagnosing, and a lack of people clarifying whether they mean "this person is displaying some narcissistic attitudes" and "this person has NPD".

I think the thing to keep in mind here is that this isn't written specifically about you; it's something I've seen directed initially at The Enemy, ie Bad Tumblr People, and more recently at other forum members.

It means I, personally, find it easier to deal with people screaming vitriol and threatening to kill me than I do with people throwing around buzzwords and insinuations.

This was my thought, yeah.

And plenty of people here agree with you. I don't.

It would be. It's fine if people can't do that. My issue is less that people aren't doing that and more that peaceful, kind dialogue is constantly pushed as a solution for everything from facism to people making down with cis jokes, but when it comes to actually talking with people who belong to The Enemy it doesn't happen.

Yep.

Same here. I think that goes for plenty of people.

 

Feel free to discuss if you ever have the spoons for it.

 

this gets rambly and mainly thoughts-as-passing so spoilered and will delete if you want!

Spoiler: wORDS

Hrmmmmm
I think the other times I've run into you I considered you "pretty chill, good snark"? But my time-space-etc memory isn't always ~functional~ in the terms of usefulness
right now I'm trying to analyze my Immediate Reactions to most of your posts because I thhhhink I got Irrationally Upset but that might've been over like...perceiving "Mad At Community" as "Mad At Keltka, Specifically", which is a thing I sometimes do
bad brain, bad
especially as on a second read through, you really do make some good points, but a lot of them are like...couched in words that sorta send "BE MAD" signals in general, I think? <<< theorizing about that though
there are things I appreciate about kintsugi, and things I'm ://// on, like, I like the whole "second chances" mentality, but I worry about the opportunities that might create for the type of people who are willing to/happy to take advantage of that kinda thing?
I ddddo think that your Intro To The Scene (okay bad wording you've been here a while, ermmmm intro to the current staging?? like, acts, scenes, staging? oh my god brain shut up) might've definitely created some tensions, annnd maybe an iffy first/brighter/newer impression of you?

I guess like
I appreciate that you've gotten me thinking
bbbbut maybe not so much the way you did it?
and there are questions we DO need to ask
gROANS okay this went in circles fast sORRY.

—oh hey as others above, I'm also not sure if I'm one of the people you hate, but if there's something in my behavior that upsets you, lemme know and I can try and work on that!



also I've been trying to Reach Out to people more and like. talk to them. about stuff. if they're upset or if they want to talk/engage/discuss things
if I'm bothering you sorry about that and I can delete this!!

 

@keltka I think in my initial interactions I was snarky, but I wanted to engage and I tried to tone down the snark at a few points. It felt like, even when I was trying to be my nicest, I got a lot of "Yeah, but you're not performing niceness the way I want/not enough, so I'm still gonna get mad" and, even when I was being nice (or, trying to be) assumptions that I was trolling or some kind of weird tumblr spy. I was going to try to just stop checking the site, because inevitably it just pissed me off, but...force of habit.
I'd been lurking onsite for awhile on a few accounts and had some definite problems with site culture by the time I started posting. I feel like a lot of those have really ramped up over the last 6-8 months or so.
Basically, right now I'm pissed off/frustrated enough to give up on the being nice thing. I feel like I'm actually having more productive discussion by being an asshole than by being nice.
(For the record, you're not bothering me.)

 

Hrmmmm
okay well if you want any of my opinions (and you can always tell me to fuck off on that) I've noticed that people tend to take people more differently if they're outright informed, "hey, this is me trying to be nice"? like fr'instance I know some people put in their signatures that they have trouble parsing things, or will randomly drop out of conversations, or that if you ping them and say "hey I can't handle a debate rn" they'll listen!
so if you think that would have/might help, that's always an option out there!

I'm a fan of snark! that wasn't meant as an insult if it came off as one! wow I exclamation point a lot wtf anYWAY I tend to gravitate towards sarcastic people (despite. taking it literally. really often.) so snark's always good in my book?

[using general "you" here btw!!] and I think that makes sense—people tend to Sit Up And Take Notice if you're being a dick, so it's...easier? to get people to talk and discuss and whatnot? and once they've Been Around long enough to get that maybe you're an asshole, but you're not THE WORST PERSON TO EVER PERSON then they're like "EYOOOOO discussion time!!!!" and so on


I was going to say that it might be cool to have a Site Culture And What The Heckie type thread up somewhere, but I think it'd have to be opened up by a fairly neutral party, and/or treated as open-ended discussion, or people might worry that it's...coming off as, uh...attack-y? NOT BECAUSE IT'D BE AN ACTUAL ATTACK but more because I know I tend to Jump To The Worst Conclusion, and I think that's a pretty common-ish problem around here?

(OH OKAY COOL GOOD TO KNOW) (once I got past the RAAAAH type posts you seemed to Genuinely want to engage so I figured I'd give it a shot?)

 

There were definitely issues with incorrect parsing, at least initially; once I pointed out "I'm trying to have a conversation not just shit on everything you love" some people were a little more amenable, some weren't.

Possibly? Honestly, I didn't really think anyone was going to end up responding here other than to say "ur a dick go away" so, kudos for that. I...feel I have sort of an advantage in being able to say "hey this sucks cut it out" because I don't have any social capital to maintain here and I don't really mind at this point if people hate me.

I feel there have been several threads to the tune of "I don't like this thing about site culture, can we change that" and they've essentially all ended up at "play nice with the other kids, but, meh, We Don't Do Rules." Also, pretty much all of those threads focus on how people want other people onsite to be treated; I don't see a lot of discussion about how people offsite (on tumblr specifically since that's where a lot of the vitriol is directed) are/should be treated.

 

I think you've got the right of it, actually, @local troublemaker
being unpleasant and confrontational actually gets you respect and sometimes productive discussion (cf. Rigorist), but trying to be nice just gets you more tone-policing and concern trolling about not being nice enough or nice in the right way

 

i'd be down for a tumblr.txt ethics committee thread in the vein of the cdcf ethics committee
(not that I don't also personally have massive unresolved issues with treatment of other people onsite, mind)

 

in terms of nice-ness on the website- I think that there is a difference between being nice and polite, or rude and mean. I'm frequently polite while being not-nice, as I understand both of these concepts, and that's because I grew up in a family that was pretty sarcastic but also weirdly sensitive.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I'd suggest we need a site culture for many of the reasons that having a formal site culture don't really work on here. the insistence on not having solid rules forces many people to create their own while breaking other people's rules.

however, I like it this way. it givres me to be more vocal about how my boundaries and limitations work.

point=???????

 

Hrm :/ I guess that's ~one of those things~ where some people are gonna be like "yeah okay" and others are gonna be like "lmao nah"
that sucks though I'm sorry :/

that definitely makes a lot of sense! not caring about what people thing is probably an advantage in a lot of ways
and having someone who's willing to be like "lmao nah" even if it means people are gonna be like wow jerk :/ is a really good thing imo?

I mean, I think a lot of them tend towards "Don't Like This Specific Thing" and then derail into Overall Site Culture thread with a side of "play nice, No Rules"? not sure if there's been a full on Site Culture thread yet
but yeah Wiwaxia's suggestion of an ethics committee kinda thing might be a good idea re: tumblr et. al

I agree with kmoss on the polite/nice dichotomy, I've learned that like...angry-polite opens a lot of doors way better than being nice means
maybe a reaction to "this person is Upset, but they are attempting to be Polite Anyway"? who knows!

 

"Ethics Committee" is just a thread for Beldaran and jacktrash to provide cover for whatever sketchy shit seebs wants to do.