NSFW RP: consent, minors, and other boundaries

possibly useless thought experiment re: boundaries you don't agree with socially
say someone has a boundary that is: they want all mentions of shaving cream, facial hair, and jeff foxworthy tagged and warned for
obviously you don't agree with these socially, do you have to respect it?
i feel like for this it would be appropriate to just block people who don't agree to these terms, until you find someone who does. but arguing with the person who doesn't want to see that sweet stache about how they shouldn't care and it's ridiculous seems really tone-deaf for this site

that said, i feel like sexuality is enough of a culturally-accepted boundary that arguing about it seems pedantic and idealistic. it pings to me like arguing that pre-op/no-op afab people shouldn't have to wear shirts in the summer, and getting pissed when people are made uncomfortable by naked breasts, because don't you know society is just brainwashing you and it's perfectly natural?

 

Yes, but what i was involved in what the discussion of exactly where the boundaries of that were, where the extreme included no fade to black of sex if minors were even present. As in not played out sex, fade to black. (Note yes this is the extreme.)
discussion of what actually IS sexual roleplay and what isn´t as well. And there was a lot of widening of limits.

Your example does not match what was going on. What was goung on would be more like people Wanting facial hair etc. tagged, but saying they wanted faicial hair etc. forbidden entirely. There´s a difference.

ETA: A personal boundary and a sitewdie rule are very different beasts.

 

thanks! :D

i know no one's doing it right now, but i was not just thinking of how the thread is going right now when i posted that. i was also thinking about how it had went in the past, with the disputes about fade-to-blacks and adult/minor romantic roleplays, and all the confusion we had about what people wanted there.

i don't think kintsugi could or would or should tag and warn for all mentions of shaving cream, facial and jeff foxworthy. like, sorry, that's not happening. kintsugi could avoid talking about those things with the user they know is triggered by them, but universally tagging and warning for them in all the subforums is a no-go.

 

ah okay i'm just talking personal boundaries, not site-wide rules here. and i'm talking post-to-post. sorry if my example was ill-suited to the conversation, am exhausted and it seemed like a good idea at the time. bowing out now.

 

The goal would be to prevent adult/child cybering using a variety of tools.

 

Or for a real world example that might help - I am triggered by large wall fans and charcoal figures. Seeing these will trigger my PTSD severely. Do I expect people to know and accommodate this? No. However in an RP environment where I feel respected and like my feelings will be taken into consideration, if someone accidentally steps on that I would be able to say OOC "Hi, I'm sorry, I can't deal with that specific thing." Or lay out at onset that I would like to avoid those two things in conjunction with my own character, and that I understand and don't expect people to spoiler all mentions of wall fans and charcoal figures.
However, a more common trigger I have is aggressive sexual commentary directed at me or a character I am playing, [eta, well, also the former] the latter without my consent being sought beforehand. For that, it's far more reasonable to suggest applying a general community guideline that it's better to check with the player before making aggressive sexual commentary at their character.

I think an issue here is we have people with vastly differing experiences from their RP backgrounds - people who completely divorce themselves from the characters they are playing, and people who don't. There's also the additional complication that for some people, they have experiences of folks taking romantic RP as indication of romantic emotions outside of the RP itself, or feeling like they have been hit on via romantic RP in the past. There's a natural widening of the conversation as more competing access needs become visible in order to determine what baseline general boundary would best serve the greatest number of people and make them feel safe. It doesn't mean that it's going to lead to bans on any topics ever being talked about outside of the already established hard-no of minor/adult erp

 

Kathy not what I meant by widening of limits. I meant widening of definition of what constitutes unacceptable rp between a minor and an adult, not just bringing other issues up.

 

perhaps make it clear what you consider acceptable then, or point me at a previous post if you already have?

 

So current strategies I'm seeing:

• If there's doubt if something might be over the line, ask beforehand! Always ask before involving someone else's character in violence, romance or sexual activity (Do not involve minors in sexual or violent RP)
• Mind the warnings & Rules on a thread before joining/while reading along!* Not everyone has the same comfort level with things so it's important to take care of yourself and be careful!
• Negotiate the specific level of what gets spoilered/is a no-go for your RPs proactively and with open communication as much as possible! Not all RPs will be having the same guidelines and standards so players should talk about this in their own threads to make sure everyone playing is havign fun!

* It's okay to request something be spoilered even if you are '''only''' reading along, but some games may choose not to. If no warnings are posted it's probably safer to assume the thread in question is equivalent to 'Author Chose Not To Warn' on AO3 (especially if the thread is in the 18+ area).

 

Why is this a thing we are discussing? However:
Controversial opinion: I consider fade to blacks acceptable because no sex is being written. I consider romantic relationships between character acceptable.

On another side, and i guess this isn´t clear to people: i also think it is 100% fine to not want any of the above and say so, personally.

 

I asked because you keep correcting me and telling me it's not what you meant, but I also have no idea what you meant, so I'm asking clarifying questions. Thank you for laying that out.
I personally strongly disagree on a child safety basis, and think it's better to err on the side of caution to ensure as much as possible that there's a minimized risk of a minor developing romantic/sexual feelings toward their adult RP partner, or vice-versa (I am not saying that I think there is or has been a risk of the latter on this forum) as this is a thing with many demonstrate-able cases - it's a thing I encountered first hand as a minor myself rp'ing on mmo's and nearly wound up in a predatory relationship as a result.

Spoiler: an additional thing that I promise isn't meant to be inflammatory and think is important to say but is not in any way a personal attack on anyone who has a different perspective and belief

There are some rules about the ethics of adult/minor interactions for a reason, and when it comes to the safety of minors I personally think protecting them - not in a 'uwu think of the children' way, but in a 'emotions can be complicated especially in collaborative fiction' way - should be a priority over concern of a too wide general boundary from adults.

 

This is more or less my position too yes.
Additionally I worry about over-limiting minors but I can see a point in being too cautious. I'm just also of the opinion that letting minors decide for themselves what they are comfortable with when it comes to the grey-zones of 'caution necessary, might shade into uncomfortable' and just checking in as much if not more than you would with any adult RP-partner is very important.
Idk I'd rather encourage minors to assert and communicate their own boundaries as much as possible than be overly protective because gods know that I would have lost my shit at people having this kind of discussion around me when I was 16 because 'Uh excuse me I can speak??? for myself???'
But I might be weird! This is just where I personally stand but in general I'm in favor of talking about things and seeing where everyone else stands! :)

 

I don't think it's weird, and I really want to emphasize i'm not demonizing anyone for disagreeing, I was just a minor who needed that boundary and was unable to speak out when uncomfortable even when encouraged. Especially since any minors who come here have a higher chance than average of being mentally ill or abuse survivors, i think it's really important to take that into account and accomodate for the ones who won't feel safe rather than the ones who will
eta: absolutely encourage minors to advocate for their own boundaries, plan for the ones who can't is what i'm saying.

 

Ok I´m sorry but I´m tired and not ok. I´ve debated this with multiple people all over this thread and don´t have the energy to go over it again with you. You can find all my arguments in this thread. I corrected you because I found your description inaccurate.

Also, what Ivy said.

 

That's fine, please take care of yourself and tap out as needed. I'm only able to participate rn because I slept.

 

Thank you, yes, that is basically where I stand. Should note this is less me actively not wanting to change my mind and more just. The arguments presented not changing it. the reason I´d posted in here again was just to make clear i at least was always speaking of sitewide rules, not personal boundaries.

 

That's how I feel when I see people complaining about the addition of violence to sex as a potentially triggering and tagworthy concept--I'm trying to articulate a boundary that matters to me, and people like you are dismissing it because it doesn't agree with their social/political views about sex being the only thing that is a problem.

It's like you think sex is the only thing someone could possibly have a legitimate objection to. There is a political stance to the effect that it's weird people think sex is more upsetting than violence. But whether or not you agree with that stance, objections to unwelcome violent content are still legitimate, particularly when said violent content is forced upon people.

It doesn't matter which one an individual finds more upsetting, what matters is that they are BOTH topics that people of all ages should have the express right to opt out of. Why can you not be supportive of my desire not to have to watch people beat up on their own NPCs and not allow me to stop it? Because I am in fact totally supportive of your desire not to take part in sexy RPs. Can't we agree that nobody should have to be miserable?

 

I feel like this ties into the thing about some people feeling like they can't report things/voice concerns safely in current systems, is all?
When setting up safety nets, i personally think it's idea to cast them as generally as possible and have it be understood that individual boundaries can be negotiated, rather than just present that people can negotiate individual boundaries because that leaves people who are unable to do that feeling like there's no recourse. There's no way to make 100% accurate rules that'll cover every situation without saying "NONE OF ANY OF THIS IS ALLOWED" which isn't what I'm advocating for at all, and would never advocate for that.
It's like the report thing - here, nuance and making sure things are clear in what they mean & what they don't is important, and I'm naturally more concerned with the people who are uncomfortable/feel unsafe voicing their opinions on this issue and also largely trying to format my posts to reassure people who feel that way that they are being directly acknowledged and that they aren't cowards/idiots/etc for not being able to participate directly. I am uncomfortable with an environment on a mental health forum where the quieter and conflict averse people are dismissed unless they directly participate.
I'm not saying that is happening rn, but that I'm saying things as a highly conflict averse person who is awful at enforcing my own boundaries to both offer potential perspective to folks who may not have considered that and also reassure anyone following this but not posting who has similar mental illness brainbugs that there is representation of those brainbugs in the conversation.
I'm also not saying i'm the only one doing that, just providing broader context for things I say and how I say them.