True, I see where you're coming from in that regard. There's been a few instances where Nick, of course, does have the evidence and he isn't bullshitting, nor does he need to, he just hasn't done the whole "turn your thinking around" thing to see how the evidence fits into the course of events. Both happen to him, so I can't fault Edgeworth for getting caught in the same thinking traps as our local spikey-haired defense attorney. But yeah no I do get the frustration haha. Like I said, I have a few theories why Edgeworth would forget about trials and is determined to prove someone innocent or guilty right off the bat. One of which is just... this is what always happens during the initial investigation. Maybe not at the hands of Von Karma Edgeworth, Franziska, or the Paynes, but those non-corrupt prosecutors who want the truth over the verdict? Yeah, I can see all of them doing this - getting a very viable suspect AND ruling out other possibilities before the trial. That said, that's my "what fits in with the universe of AA?" theory. My more logical "why did the creators do this" theory is that, since they got rid of the courtrooms in AAI (possibly because of cartridge space on the DS), they just said screw it, let's put the same elements into a setting outside of the courtroom to make it seem different without having to write in 20 new game mechanics. Which is why all the characters forget that the courtroom even exists to house the exact arguments they're having out in public.
It's just so weird to me that we get so few hints about what Klavier feels about anything when he's so closely tied to multiple culprits. It strikes me as a huge wasted opportunity to never even hint at it. Spoiler Kristoph in particular. Did Klavier know what Kristoph was like before everything went down? How did he feel about having been used as a patsy to get Nick disbarred? (We know the situation upset him, because he didn't prosecute another trial for years, but what about finding out Kristoph put him in that position in the first place?) Did he doubt Kristoph's first conviction, or did he go, "Yup, murdering a random guy with a bottle, that sounds like Kris"? Has he ever in the past done anything where he felt like he was covering for Kristoph, or did all the stuff his brother did come as a complete shock? How did his big brother's career path influence his- did he go into a similar field because he looked up to Kristoph, or did he go into prosecution where Kristoph went into defense to spite him? It's great for fanficcers, not great for Klavier having any sort of satisfying arc in canon.
I enjoy this description. @LadyNighteyes Spoiler I find the lack of information on his motivation to be a prosecutor especially frustrating, actually. There's just so many explanations you can slot into that spot, and some of them could possibly not have anything to do with Kristoph at all. But also poor babyyy I wanna pet him. Even assuming he was unsurprised that Kristoph would do all those things that's gotta hurt something fierce.
Yeah, especially since he's the primary... "antagonist" maybe isn't quite the right word, since he's much nicer and friendlier than all the other prosecutors, but he's the person you're in most direct conflict with for most of the game. And yet the game doesn't really establish any motivation beyond "he's doing his job," or if I remember right even explain why he decided to come back to that job after years as a musician. Spoiler Yeah. And we do get the brief shot of him crying at the end of the last case, but it's so ambiguous.
Oh, wait, I was remembering wrong. The sprite is I thought he had a tear running down his face. So. Even more ambiguous than how I thought it was.
Was it ever stated in canon how close Kristoph and Klavier were? I don't remember if a fact was ever stated or if I'm confusing fic with canon, cause I operate under the assumption that Kristoph was not very good to Klavier, despite Klavier seemingly looking up to him, so in the end, Klavier wasn't that surprised. I wish we had more development for our rock star prosecutor though. He's the only primary prosecutor without a backstory and large amount of character development.
Nope. That's the thing I was complaining about under the spoilers- we have almost no canonical clues about their relationship. Spoiler I've seen fan works go everywhere from "Klavier desperately wanted Kristoph's approval for a lot of his life" to "Klavier knows Kristoph is a serial killer and is trying to stay as far away from him as possible so Kristoph doesn't target him for knowing too much."
I see, that's what I thought, but again, mixing up fandom and canon is my specialty haha. Two sets of siblings in AJ and only one of them gets development, despite them both involving main characters.
Yeah, but the other pair never even find out they're siblings, so I don't think that one entirely counts either. AJ's writing had some serious problems.
I think they did though, we just didn't get to see it. Spoiler: spirit of justice endgame spoilers Phoenix and Lamirior were discussing how since Trucy and Apollo were grown up, they could be told about their relationship. Of course, this was only after Apollo leaves for what looks like years, and this discussion was an end credits scene, so I have no idea if telling them is ever going to be an in-universe discussion or it's just forever implied in the credits. EDIT: exact quotes were something along the lines of "do you think we should tell them, now? they've both grown into fine young people" "yes, i think we should, are you ready?" "yes"
I think it's fair to say Kristoph doesn't treat him well just from how he acts towards him in court. He may be under a lot of pressure and therefore acting a little differently than he might but he still keeps insulting Klavier's competence and then acting like Klavier must be on his side anyway. And at this point Klavier knows he's been used so... Kristoph is a habitual emotional abuser, what more can you say.
That's where I think fanfic gets the headcanon that they NEVER got along and Klavier isn't really surprised by his behavior or his arrest. But then... we have the problem of it being ambiguous to the general audience. We are analytical people who know what abuse looks like and what it means. Unfortunately the general audience of people playing AA and maybe even the writers don't, or if they do, don't look that much into it. If there's another AJ installment in the future, I really hope they give Klavier more development that's more obvious and doesn't require deep analysis of the inner workings and hidden meanings behind everything said by him and others.
I don't think that necessarily means they never got along. There are a lot of abuse victims/targets who certainly think their relationship is fine and normal. From the way he reacted with surprise that all logic was pointing to Kristoph being a methodical, long-term serial killer and the wanting to face him in court bit I think he thought of it as more friendly and supportive then it actually was.
That's along the lines of what I was thinking too. I'm saying in a lot of fanon, Klavier is hardly affected by the truth of Kristoph and kinda deep down always knew it.
i'm replaying AA1, and at one point Manfred von Karma makes an offhand comment about his grandchild. which begs the question... does Franziska have a kid? does Miles have a kid, and von Karma considers him sufficiently son-like? does von Karma have a kid we don't know about? (my current headcanon is that Franziska was a teen mom)
I've always assumed Franziska has at least one older sibling who has a kid. Probably one who went into something other than prosecution, which is why Franziska feels like it's up to her to carry on the family traditions. Particularly given the huge age gap between Manfred and Franziska- he's old enough to be her grandfather.
All my headcanons aside, I don't see Franziska or Miles as the type to have a kid. Headcanons back to the forefront of my mind, Manfred strikes me as the type to believe "the men of the family have to carry on the family tradition". If he had a biological son who was Franziska's brother who didn't keep up that tradition, the weight would fall to Franziska, or even to Miles. Franziska has in the past stated that she feels as if she lives in Miles shadow, and how she has a desire to step out of that shadow, she also had no desire to take revenge for her father, which is something you'd usually expect. My headcanon? Manfred's decision to adopt Miles was fueled by the fact his biological son didn't carry on the tradition and he needed a man to do the job. Franziska pursued that tradition to prove herself worthy to her father, but since her father expected more out of Miles, she had to fight for her right to carry the family name and tradition against Miles - who, at the time of his adoption, was a young, easily molded child to follow a different set of ideals as long as they maybe-sorta sounded like his fathers. None of this has any canon evidence. Subscribe for more of Maya's ridiculous headcanons they just like spewing out of their shit-hole of a mouth.
