Discussion in 'Make It So' started by Vacuum Energy, Jun 14, 2015.
everything looks better in non stock photos I've found. with the expectation of a few indie brands.
I detest replicas. It's not because classism -- you can buy secondhand. It's definitely not fatphobia -- I am fat. Actually some of the most fatphobic people in the lolita community are the ones who say fat girls should wear replicas because we "ruin" brand by altering it to fit us.
AP and BTSSB basically ARE indie brands--they run on pretty tight margins. They only print enough fabric to cover what they think they can sell--they only do reprints for really popular items on a make-to-order basis. One of the reasons they have so much trouble putting out multiple sizes is the patterning issue, getting the cut just right so they don't have to waste fabric. The reason Romantic Rose Letter was such a rare print was because the fabric was delicate and got ruined at the factory, and they couldn't make more. The designers, also, are very unhappy with replicas. No, they're not starving because of replicas, but they still hate them.
(I have met Maki and Asuka, and am friends with the people who own the USA branch of Angelic Pretty, and also friends with Fumiko of Enchantlic Enchantilly).
But honestly, one of the major reasons I hate replicas is that I've SEEN them. I used to work in QA for Old Navy long ago, and I've never seen one that would pass QA for a low-end-line like Old Navy or Target. You pay $70-100 so no you shouldn't expect the same quality as a $250-300 dress, but if you pay $70 you should get a $70 dress, not a dress that wouldn't pass muster at a shop where dresses are $30.
The prints are usually blurry or splotchy; I have even seen replicas that left dye on things.
And the "custom sizes" often look terrible because DOL and screwjia don't know how to alter for plus sizes--they just increase the bust and waist without adding any length to the back or the bodice, so that the waist is up under the wearer's boobs and the dress is longer in front than in back because it's not long enough to go over the extra butt. I really think the replica makers exploit the hell out of plus size girls.
I don't fit much brand, but I do own some brand, and I do alter brand to fit me when I have to do that.
Quietly following. I've been into in a "I love looking at this and wish I could wear it" sort of way since. . . probably early aughts? It's been a thing.
I don't think it's actually impossible for anyone to wear any of the fashions mentioned in this thread, excluding being very very sensitive to all kinds of fabric on skin. There's always ways to tweak the aesthetic, it just sometimes takes more effort for osme people than for others? Idk I'm just kinda 'no don't be discouraged :c' whenever I see someone say that sentence because poofy skirts are for EVERYONE!!!
Personally history note: I was a deeply closeted through the aughts. I mean, I was a practicing Mormon until 2004? So, yeah, there was definitely an impossibility there.
Now it's mostly a "I don't have nearly enough data to be able to shop for things" also, male bodied and big.
There's also the 'most of this is FREAKING EXPENSIVE' problem too
eh you can make it less expensive by shopping smart and catching sales and luckypacks and stuff? there is tons of beginner guides and everythign around the web, and second hand comms and stuff. I can personally testify that a university student with fairly little income can have a small but adequate Lolita wardrobe and would probably have a bigger lolita wardrobe if they didn't also have a LARP wardrobe and a few other alernative fashions they like constantly investing money into *shrug*
that's just a research problem. There is a lot of ways for bigger ladies to wear Lolita, from hunting down pieces with fullshirring to custom sizing from indiebrands to just altering pieces to fit. The amab thing is not a problem afaik? idk maybe a waist cincher or something could help for the waist area but i dont see why it would be an obstacle? (...except I actually don't know if you are out in meatspace. That could be a problem, obviously. hm)
Big is a problem, male bodied less so, in my experience having Large Boobs and dealing with plus size clothes that assume I have the same bust to waist ratio as a girlshape half my weight. Definitely easier to fill out what you don't have that trying to pack in what you do, when the latter is "too much."
As for the rest of [gesture in the shape of male hips] @IvyLB is correct in saying that cinchers, corsets, and other shapewear will help a lot. (Where'd the corset thread get buried to?)
honestly I wouldn't worry about male shape at all if the dress/skirt flares out from you natural waist. the petti gives that illusion anyway. If you're really bothered I'd go more along the lines of high waist skirts with corset lacing and a ruffle at the top.
IMO the thing you are most likely to hit issues with is broad shoulders.
Actually, speaking of plus size, male body fits etc, do people think a lolita specific sewing thread would be a good idea?
RIGHT I always forget broad shoulders are generally a maleshape thing because I have more shoulder than half my highschool football team. That also.
I have broad shoulders too--and big boobs. Many dresses that are technically big enough in the bust for me won't come down over my shoulders..
Seriously, I don't think male shape should be much of a problem except for the shoulders... It's much easier to wear back shirring if you're NOT carrying most of your extra bust measurement in the front.
I have bought a lot of my brand second-hand. Second hand from other lolitas isn't that cheap, but second-hand from places like Tokyo Alice or Closet Child isn't that bad. I understand the best prices are on Japanese auction sites but I don't have the patience to wait for a shopping service.
Thrift stores are your friend for blouses and accessories! Won't usually work for skirts because the shape is really important for lolita, but you can find some really cute stuff to work as a base. I've also sometimes had luck at stores like Forever 21, although I don't know if those are a thing where you live.
Also, sewing is not nearly as hard as it's made out to be. Lots of lolita things like simple rectangle skirts are well suited for a total beginner project.
Can confirm, plenty of simple skirt patterns out there
I am also a fat lolita--18/20 US sizes usually--but I have major issues with "replicas" because they're illegal and the Lolita brands are really indie, they're not big corporations like Comme des Garcons or even Liz Lisa. I would never give someone "the list" just because, but I also don't just smile when people talk about replicas like they think it's OK. OoJia and DOL are, in addition to art thieves, really horrible at sizing up their patterns and I've seen a lot of replicas that frankly look like shit because the proportions on them are absolutely terrible. I feel that they are actually taking advantage of fat people in lolita--they know they can get girls with busts over 100 cm to pay $70 and up for dresses that would not have passed QC at Old Navy when I worked in the Old Navy QC department.
AP could make money hand over fist if they were willing to release more stuff, no argument there, but they're also seriously having some scaling issues and I can't get anyone to tell me why it's been MONTHS since they made any jewellery. I don't know what Honda-san is thinking and the people I know that talk to her frequently haven't been at the store too much lately. Something is going wrong over there and I really wish I knew what it was.
But I don't feel that this excuses selling fat girls dresses in faded, misprinted or bleeding fabrics that are sloppily cut and even more sloppily sewn, and incredibly overpriced for what you get.
As you mentioned, brand is often VERY generous. Victorian Letter (tiered JSK) from Angelic Pretty fit right off the hanger with no alterations. If you want recs for brand that might fit you at 18/20, feel absolutely free to hit me up. I know that the larger dresses may not be the prints you fell in love with...but sometimes you do get lucky. I'm not the world's biggest fan of BTSSB's Shirring Princess (frequently recommended to fat girls) BUT I do like it when they do it in prints, and sometimes you get lucky with that--I found one with a sweet strawberry/flower print that I own and I have the rare dark brown version with the dark brown bustle.
I wear mostly brand. Some of it's been altered, but a lot of it hasn't. Older brand is sometimes cheap at secondhand stores like Tokyo Alice to the point where you can buy extra pieces to get more fabric...I've seen BTSSB skirts for under 50 USD. I won't buy replicas--I have a Kidsyoyo dress that some people consider a replica, but there's no print on it and only the top half of the dress looks like the BTSSB dress some people consider it a replica of.
I *have* often encountered the attitude that "fat girls should wear replicas because they don't deserve real brand" and fuck that noise. You know what? It's 100% Western Lolita bullshit noise because replicas are not tolerated in Japan.
It is also absolutely not true that brands don't make bigger sizes because they only want thin people in their dresses. Every Japanese designer I've ever spoken to has been delighted to hear that some things fit, enchanted with the idea of people remaking the dresses to fit them, and absolutely supportive. They just have problems with patterning on the print layouts to make cutting out multiple sizes without wasting a lot of expensive printed fabric work for them. They're working on it though.
There are a couple of Angelic Pretty cuts that are absolutely really plus size dresses and I wish they would do them more often.
I really do understand that it sucks if you want the hottest latest print that doesn't come in a plus cut because I go through the exact same thing. Especially if it comes in an unalterable fabric like Romantic Rose Letter (I held onto it for a year before admitting that ripping it up to add extra shirring from waist ties would ruin it and selling it). It's sad and painful and all that stuff. But if the fabric can be altered? you have options.
I currently am sitting on a yard and a half of sax Sugary Carnival because a fat friend bought an extra skirt to alter her dress with and I'm trying to decide if I'm going to wait until I find a sax Sugary Carnival on the sales comms or just incorporate it into another design. She gave me the extra fabric for $50. You can work things out with people, really you can, without going the fake route.
I actually have this print although I'm going to have to alter it. I really wanted them to make it in the Bustier style for the fat ladies that they did with Wonder Queen and Victorian Letter because it's the same type of print.
Now you're making me wonder if I don't want to make a bustier/corset top for it in a solid colour. It would be so much more work though.
I don't mind busy AP prints because they usually have that ladder thing going on which provides a visual sense of order, but holy fuck do I hate the busy BTSSB rints that don't even have the stripe effect to save your eyes.
My primary complaint about this print is that they used that rough BTSSB-style fabric for it. I find that this fabric tears easily under stress -- my much thinner roommate ended up buying one of my BTSSB dresses because it tore when she tried it on because she got the waist ties caught and the button wasn't reinforced.
Honestly the reason I ended up buying this print was the FOX.
Rabbits and deer are common in lolita prints but I don't think that I have ever seen a fox before!
Welp, AP USA asked them to cut down the size of their stock photos because they used to use stock photos that were like 300 dpi that took forever to download and upload and caused no end of trouble during site uploads when the site is already stressed because everyone and their damn cousin is trying to get the dresses. So maybe they did? IDK but um, it's possible to take photos without them being 300 dpi and also not sucking.
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