r/fatlogic derail

Discussion in 'General Advice' started by Athol Magarac, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. Athol Magarac

    Athol Magarac I prefer reading posts without a lot of topics.

    ((MOD NOTE: snipping most of the original post, leaving the context for the following discussion))

    I think I picked up fee-fees from fatlogic. One of their hobbies is to talk about people of size who get upset at any negativity about their weight.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2018
  2. rigel

    rigel in a line of late afternoon sun

    then uh, i think that kind of explains why you shouldnt use it? its insulting and dismissive and treats the person you're expressing it towards as though their feelings/experiences don't matter. and again, i dont think you really get to say "fee fees" wrt other people's trauma & other people being rightfully upset with you when you obviously are unable to take criticism very well & treat everything like a huge fucking attack on you
    • Agree x 15
  3. Mala

    Mala Well-Known Member

    Have you considered not taking your phrasing from various bigots? Bc some of the racist shit you've said was also picked up from other racists, wasn't it?

    If you take your phrasing from bigots, you will, in fact, sound like a bigot. And on the internet where people only have your words to go on well...you'll be indistinguishable from a bigoted asshole.

    So when people are mocking and dehumanizing others, don't fucking blindly repeat their words and phrases.
    • Agree x 10
  4. rigel

    rigel in a line of late afternoon sun

    like..... okay greallen, if you dont want to be treated like a bigot, stop using their dogwhistles and their logic and their words. stop talking the way they do. because even if you may not intend to sound that way, you sound just like them, and it puts people on edge and makes others much less willing to hear you out, because on top of the massive amounts of bullshit these bigots spread, we also don't want to be dehumanized & treated like we're some kind of spectacle and subhuman, and with every phrase and dogwhistle you use, we expect that sort of violence more and more. you've already hurt and disregarded and dehumanized people on this forum as it is. no one wants to be next and no one wants to just put up with it and hold your hand.
    • Agree x 10
  5. Gyro Zeppeli

    Gyro Zeppeli Pseudo Anti Cult Leader

    Real talk, the fact that you can't seem to go five posts without coming up with something disgustingly bigoted will probably hurt any long term community projects you take part in.
    • Agree x 5
  6. Athol Magarac

    Athol Magarac I prefer reading posts without a lot of topics.

    @Vivec @rigel @Mala What is the purpose of rubbing my face in it after I admit fault? It makes me want to shut down and never admit to being wrong again, especially since that was a favorite tactic of my bullies.

    But there is one question that might as well be debugged since this thread got dragged off-topic AGAIN.

    Since fatlogicians use words like "Tumblerina" does that mean their entire message is bad and should be rejected? One of the things they're against is bloggers of size trying to tell everyone that being morbidly obese is fine and beautiful and that diets are evil.
  7. spockandawe

    spockandawe soft and woolen and writhing with curiosity

    Okay, I'm just going to hop in real quick to mention that it seems like you keep finding these communities where it's pretty clear that the.... nature of the community is built around attacking certain targets, which means that the community is necessarily built around hurting people, whether it's just the direct targets or whether it's splash damage. Arguing that it's totally fine for a community to be built that way is going to get a LOT of negative pushback, especially when you try to argue that X minor point is valid, which justifies the cruelty (whether or not X is valid, I have serious difficulty seeing how using the term tumblrina makes everything else they do okay).

    And, like racism, this is an issue where there is actually a LOT of academic research on the topic, and frankly, the research is pretty solid on obesity not being as unhealthy as the scare tactics make it out to be, and diet culture being 1) unhealthy, and 2) basically nonfunctional. As far as this conversation goes, you're in another hole, and I strongly encourage you to stop digging.
    • Agree x 18
  8. KingStarscream

    KingStarscream watch_dogs walking advertisement

    1. Yes.
    2. Not because they use “bad words”, though that’s indicative of the problem, but because their message is wrong too.
    3. Being ‘morbidly obese’ is shockingly easy because the BMI takes little variance in population under account, while also working exclusively off of weight rather than muscle density.
    4. Even if someone is unhealthy at their size, that’s not for internet randos to say. They still deserve dignity and care as a person. They’re still beautiful and have worth.
    5. Diets don’t work. Lifestyle changes might, but aren’t guaranteed if the underlying cause isn’t poor eating habits. Crash dieting causes more damage and leads to further weight gain down the line.
    6. This is not going to be the hill you want to die on.
    • Agree x 20
  9. Saro

    Saro Where is wizard hut

    Here's another issue with judging people's health by their size: it doesn't fucking work. A thousand "fatlogicians" (???) could look at me and conclude I'm healthy because I'm fairly petite and look like I have a low BMI, but they would be fucking wrong because I am never healthy. I have a chronic disease that probably contributes to my petiteness. Then they could turn around and shame a perfectly healthy fat person into doing something needless, useless, and potentially damaging to their health because they fit a stereotype in their heads about health vs. unhealth. Not only can their message be bad, their thinking on the subject is wrong. You cannot know just by weight if a person is healthy or not.
    • Agree x 12
    • Winner x 1
  10. palindromordnilap

    palindromordnilap Well-Known Member

    (Unless they're underweight, especially given that the BMI range for that is way too low. That's usually a sign of something being wrong.)
  11. Gyro Zeppeli

    Gyro Zeppeli Pseudo Anti Cult Leader

    Because, as mentioned, you keep doing it. It’s not like this is one little bad thing you did once. You went from being a huge racist and antisemite to being a cock about someones abuse history to comparing a kids show to sex offenders to defending fatphobia in the span of a week.

    Nah, their message is bad and should be rejected because they’re both demonstrably wrong and huge fucking assholes with a community based around being dicks to people.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
    • Agree x 6
  12. rigel

    rigel in a line of late afternoon sun

    hi greallen, im one of those bloggers and as much as i want to tell you exactly where you can shove yr opinion im going to say something else

    bigotry isnt a science and very little, if anything bigots say is proved BY science. the science bigots use is either made up on the spot, plain wrong, or has been disproven by countless new studies over the years.

    as well, it isnt your job or anyone elses job on the internet to tell someone if their body type/habits are unhealthy, because everyone has different dietary requirements. what works for one person, will not necessarily work for another person with different genetics and a completely different lifestyle.

    some people are actually genetically predisposed to being fat or thin! no diet can keep the fat off long-term, because its in their genes to build it up. some people win genetic bingo and are thin forever and never have to worry about being called morbid! but thats not because they follow diets or a workout routine. its because of their genes and their metabilism.

    im fat! fatty tissue is bad around your heart and organs! i have a heart condition that requires i need to be careful with my body. but my cardiologists and doctors have NEVER told me that i should lose weight. they tell me to make sure im getting excercise to keep my heart healthy, but weight has never been an issue. my weight doesnt impede my health, it has never been a cause for concern, even when my mother has brought it up as a "haha see its unhealthy" thing, they have expressly told me that losing weight is not necessary for my body to function as well as it is.

    im fat. im also as healthy as i can be with this heart condition. i think i, and every fat person in the world, knows their body and health much better than you do.

    and yes, using tumblrina DOES mean that your message and any message attached to it is bad, because it is IMMEDIATELY disregarding the feelings and experiences of someone who says anything too progessive for you on tumblr. its bad because the people who use it do so to be dismissive of other people and use ut as an excuse to say hurtful things. its not a word with good connotations and honestly its a bad look for you to have another word ready to go when someone calls you on the use of a different word. all that means is you seem to be aware that these words are bad somehow and will escalate things, even though you act shocked when it does. im not going to hold your hand while you keep sealioning.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
    • Agree x 12
  13. Pumpkageist

    Pumpkageist Warning: I Shitpost

    The message "you should aim for being the healthiest you can be" is not automatically bad, no. But that's not fatlogic's message, is it? They're more like "kek hamplanets". They're trolls, not nutritionists. Nothing about what they do is noble, and it's honestly bizarre you'd try to paint it as such.
    • Agree x 14
  14. Gyro Zeppeli

    Gyro Zeppeli Pseudo Anti Cult Leader

    Same hat, I'm overweight by BMI and I've been told specifically to eat healthier and continue in moderate exercise in order to help with certain conditions I have, but I've also been specifically told not to go into it with the goal of losing weight, because that's unnecessary to maintain my health, unlikely to have any beneficial results at the level I'm capable of, and more likely to impede long-term adherence to the plan. Somehow, I trust my doctor more than internet randos who devote their free time to mocking people.

    Yeah, this too, actually. Even if your information is correct, using shitty imageboard insults in the process makes you look like a douchey reactionary asshole who can be safely ignored.
    • Agree x 8
  15. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    Yes it does actually. Especially when a lot of diet culture actively harms or even kills people. Like even if they had a point which they fucking don't these are not people you should be trusting or respecting in any regard and mentioning that you do is goign to instantly get people on your bad side. Honestly at this point I wouldn't be surprised if you told me you read Breitbart or fucking Stormfront.
    • Agree x 4
  16. Mala

    Mala Well-Known Member

    You seem to get very distressed when you accidentally say something awful and people get (rightly!) upset at you about it. So I was giving you some advice on how to avoid or reduce that happening in the future. I wouldn't even say I was particularly harsh in my criticism. But instead of responding to what I actually said, you decide to go off with "well maybe fatlogic has a point" (which A: no. B: fuck you). And you do this sort of thing a lot to me and others who try to help you, and often wind up saying even more bigoted shit in the process

    You want harsh criticism on your writing but you don't handle criticism well on anything else.
    You hate when people don't listen to you but you don't listen to what others are saying.
    You want people to stop getting angry at you but you don't seem interested in changing anything on your end to stop it.

    And then you wonder why people keep getting mad at you and why communities stop listening to your shit and you decide that since it upsets you it must be "bullying". Because you apparently don't think there's any legitimate reason for a large number of people being angry at you.
    • Agree x 14
  17. spockandawe

    spockandawe soft and woolen and writhing with curiosity

    (EDIT: originally this conversation was moved from the sporking thread in Make It So to the racism thread in Up The People. now it's in an independent thread of its own in General Advice)

    So, per request, I'm moving the fatphobia conversation to [the racism] thread. I'm not personally a huge fan of shuffling giant pieces of thread around on a regular basis, and I don't think it fits that well in here (this specific location was requested), but it was a derail for the sporking thread, and the dogwhistle issue is something that's relevant to this thread's original content.

    I'm not unlocking it, which was also requested, because these conversational detours have been consistently spiraling out of control in ugly ways, fast, and several mods have conflicts and aren't around right now. Its the middle of the American workday. It's the middle of my workday, and I'm limited to mobile only while I'm at my desk, and really need to spend some time on my job. So I'm leaving the thread locked.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
    • Informative x 8
    • Like x 3
    • Witnessed x 3
    • Agree x 2
  18. spockandawe

    spockandawe soft and woolen and writhing with curiosity

    One more explanatory post. For several reasons, including:
    • there wasn't a clear reason why the racism and fatlogic threads should be combined
    • not everyone is necessarily able to participate in both discussions
    • this conversation hadn't escalated to a point where things needed to be shut down to cool off
    I went back in again to pick out this spinoff discussion and move it to its own home. I agree it's a derail from the sporking, and it has links to the racism thread, but it's still a separate conversation. And this is a discussion that I didn't intend to silence, even though that was the material result of combining threads, but leaving the racism thread locked. So now it's here, in a new home, and the thread is open for business.
    • Winner x 7
    • Informative x 5
    • Like x 2
  19. Athol Magarac

    Athol Magarac I prefer reading posts without a lot of topics.

    Hopefully everyone else's concerns get touched on with these replies. I'll try to go back for things I missed.

    So I shouldn't read stuff on Redneck Revolt? They're anti-racist and anti-fascist... putting aside what is hopefully about as funny as intended, (going for a quiet groan) I apparently do need someone to check organizations to see if they're good or honey-covered vitriol.

    I'm going to poke around a bit to see what shape this rabbit hole is, but I don't think fatlogic was intended to be about hatred.

    Saying "hamplanets" is specifically not allowed there. I haven't been hanging out there in a while because of reasons.

    Things I don't agree with:
    • That the chart is absolute outside of bodybuilders (not sure if anyone else gets leniency)
    • That anyone who doesn't completely accept what they say is lying to themselves or making excuses
    • There is some language like "delusional" and I guess I didn't pick up on fee-fees being that bad
    It seems like most of their purpose is focused around people who have corrupted Haes, BoPo, and other movements to push an agenda about not putting any effort into controlling their weight. Sofie Hagen was a focus for a bit. They referred to diet-shaming as crab-bucketing.

    Some things that sound good on the surface:
    • Thyroid, PCOS, etc do not make it impossible to lose weight (don't accept helplessness)
    • They're actually anti diet-culture and against disordered eating (the only acceptable diet is CICO)
    • Your body will not violate the laws of physics (if you're really starving yourself, you're not going to gain weight)
    Most of their diet advice beyond "look up CICO" is actually pretty vague. They do say things like "your metabolism isn't going to shut down if you don't eat every few hours" and "developing a full-blown eating disorder is a risk, but not extremely common."

    I have no idea what those magazines(?) are.
  20. Pumpkageist

    Pumpkageist Warning: I Shitpost

    Ok. I conflated them with fatpeoplehate, which, let's be real, they probably evolved from. My bad. It seems their intent is superiority complex circlejerking rather than outright trolling. A glance at their page tells me they're still mostly mocking people for being comfortable in their own skin. Or uncomfortable in their own skin. Or trying to lose weight any other way than "eat less, move more".
    • Agree x 6
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