so i learned some things today Spoiler: deets of the minnesota starvation experiment - source So. 1000 calories a day has been used as a torture technique, justified 'cause the diet industry has made people voluntarily do this to themselves, and 1.5k calories a day is still not enough, makes the effects of many mental illnesses far worse, and actually getting enough nutrition makes...most everything easier. Including weight loss! Putting this here 'cause I don't know where else too, seems relevant.
I've actually been told a Minnesota-starvation-experiment range of calorie intake is much more physiologically tolerable when it's mostly protein and fat. But that would probably kill anyone who's prone to ketoacidosis, and would definitely not be a pleasant experience no matter what.
I would think that the obvious difference "they chose to diet like this" and maybe even include how diet programs come with a bit of emotional support. WW has meetings. Like the participants in that starvation experiment, those prisoners probably didn't have too much extra to rely on. With thinking about the lifespan of "warriors" one has to think about the Paleo diet. What was the general lifespan of cavemen as opposed to early agrarian cultures, adjusted for infant mortality? I was reading that seasonal affective disorder was actually a good thing due to the general lack of food in the winter.
The paleo diet doesn't actually have much historical basis. When you say foods we "evolved to eat" includes legumes you can't find anywhere near Sub-Saharan Africa, there's a problem.
The best support in the world cannot help you if your brain is starving. You brain alone needs roundabout 20% of the energy you eat. If you cut down below your body's needs, your brain starves. There is no fixing that. Also yes to what Palin said. 'Paleo' diets that include things from the americas are automatically bullshit, plus even before the Advent of agriculture people harvested and ate wild grains. That's how people even got the idea for domesticating them.
also, most paleo diets i've seen tend to emphasize raw food... but cooking food pre-dates anatomically modern humans. Homo erectus cooked their food.
Yep. The only benefit I can see to some of these semi-sustainable "restricted ingredient" diets is that they limit access to junkfood and maybe even make you think about what you eat. It's hard to get carbs if you cut out the starchiest vegetables. Vegetarianism doesn't really fit the bill either if you don't go to the extra step of balancing the diet. (Oreos are vegan.) I would say that the "support" of these diet programs is more about quieting the alarm bells that go off when the fat-reserves are being burned. It's a sort of "this is okay" that will keep going even if the mammal part of the brain is getting groggy. Without that, you're angry enough to kill anything and probably burn more energy if that "ready for violence" doesn't get you more food. I thought the brain was somewhat of a priority over the body, even if it goes into underclocking.
Cooked food is actually hypothesized to be one of the factors in the evolution of human intelligence. Easier to digest, much less risk of infection, and all that.
congrats that's the same justification used to excuse the fact that it's actually torture, as the quote I used explains. it changes how your brain functions. it makes things worse, across the board. it's not safe or sustainable.
also it's bad even for people who DID choose it. one of the people who volunteered for the Minnesota Starvation Experiment - someone who chose to do this, who was being monitored by doctors - cut off three of his fingers with an axe. and couldn't remember why he did it. starvation is bad even if you are doing it knowingly and voluntarily and while under observation and with full knowledge that this was research that would help people. starving yourself will fuck your brain up.
So is this something I should be offended at? I can't tell exactly what you're saying. Yeah, I saw that part. People on diets tend more toward "cheating" and then mentally beating themselves up for being so weak-willed. Though I'd like to see the numbers for those that go into self-harm even if it's extended running. (Not all running is bad.) Ah yes, I heard that parasites can make you stupid. Here's a longer article than what I read. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/artic...utm_medium=pbsofficial&utm_campaign=nova_next I know that's not really a food-borne parasite, but you get the idea.
I was a little terse but wasn't aiming to offend. I'm pointing out a problem, which is that you're applying the same justification for something that is medically unsafe as the people who put together that report did. Because people are doing it in commercial diets. Just because a lot of people are doing it, doesn't mean that it is safe or medically sound. Restricting your caloric intake to the point where you are getting medical side effects is itself a form of self harm. One that has been proven to just mess up weight loss efforts over the long term. A thing you might want to check out is the podcast Sawbones, hosted by Justin and Sydney McElroy. Sydney's a doctor. They go over a lot of medical history and trends.
It's more of an issue of 'cooked food allows your body to extract more nutrients, brains need a lot of nutrients, more nutrients mean you can afford a larger brain' Parasites do not 'make you stupid' they make you sick. People with the flu are also lethargic! As are people who lost a lot of Blood. Brain function is impeded because the parasites are a massive stress on the body they take away resources your body needs. That's the issue. What Palin is talking about is the actual increase of brain size in early hominids. That's something entirely different.
no the point is that if you do not get enough food no matter what the reason your brain will start to throw errors to the point of, say, cutting off your fingers with a frigging fire axe. because your brain is not getting enough food. it does not have enough fuel to do things like 'think' and 'assess situations.' instead, because it does not have the fuel to do this (because you're not eating enough) it starts to do things like 'assess situations very badly.' because it assesses situations very badly (because it does not have enough fuel to assess them correctly) your brain goes 'oh yes cutting off 3 of my fingers is a fine and reasonable thing to do.' because it does not have the energy to go 'in fact i will be keeping all my fingers today, and all days going forward.' in general this state (the state of making very bad self-destructive decisions because your brain does not have enough fuel to know that they are in fact very bad and self-destructive) can be avoided by making sure you eat enough food to keep your brain functioning. the state of 'eating so little that your brain starts to malfunction' is to be avoided whenever possible.
When I first moved to nz, i kept making really weird choices that immediately after, I knew were bad! I knew I shouldn't have done them! but my brain in the moment, 'cause i was still severely messed up by my starvation, didn't go "hey maybe don't". Spoiler: self harm things such as having a scaly patch on my arms that was bothering me. while pumicing my feet, i just pumiced my arms i learned that pores can bleed cause i pumiced off my skin on my arms and immediately, i knew, the second i stopped doing it that i shouldnt have done it, that it was messed up. another example was when tending the fireplace, a flaming piece of wood rolled out there were tools on hand i grabbed the wood with my bare hand and tossed it back in once i started eating more, mysteriously these problems stopped and ive been vastly less suicidal
The most basic gist: Calorie restricting, generally not helpful. Booze, also not helpful and in fact is the most calorie dense + nutrient void thing to can (relatively) safely put in your body. Even shit like fast food and Twinkies still have nutrients. Diets in general are useless. Lifestyle changes are the hardest but also most effective. You are more likely to lose weight of you stop dieting and calorie restricting, even slightly increase activity, and select foods with the right balence of nutrient content. However this is often not only hard but often also expensive. Many people do not have the time, money, or support they need to achieve these changes. Genetics, health conditions, medications and many other factors outside of people's control are also huge contributors to weight challenges. No one chooses to be fat. This entire go-around with you @Athol Magarac has been an attempt to demonstrate and convince you: Reddit dieting threads and their culture are not good places to get your information on what is or isn't healthy. Do not bring their ideas or phrasing into a mental health forum. You should probably stop frequenting them at all because it is negatively affecting the way up think of your own body and how you approach trying to get healthy Fat is not an indicator of overall health You are not entitled to know anything about a fat person's health history You need to stop making assumptions about fat people's health history or medical needs based on the fact that they are fat. Fat people do not choose to be fat Some people have decided to love themselves in the body they are in. They are not "promoting obesity" There are no fat people who are deserving of shame or judgement, not even if you're just thinking it at them. Thoughts influence actions. Even if you think you are being the good guy by not getting up in their faces irl, you still go to online communities and spread the fatphobic and shaming rhetoric that you pick up from these pro-diet (and sometimes pro-ana) communities. That needs to stop. You need to eat. You need to get sober. Given all of the above, is there still something you are not clear on or disagree with?
yeah I'm actually not allowed to do anything involving knives if I haven't eaten at least two meals that day and taken meds, and am strongly discouraged from using anything besides my duckie safety scissors (which are adorable) if I need to use scissors at all. this is bc I have a really bad habit of making incredibly bad decisions when I haven't eaten enough or if I'm dehydrated or unmedicated. like "I'm having trouble opening this bottle of gatorade bc I'm tired and dehydrated, I'll try cutting the plastic that's keeping the cap attached to the plastic ring off and see if that helps" bad. Spoiler: injury tw and for my troubles, I cut open my finger. again. so I ended up tired, dehydrated and bleeding, the last of which is kind of a problem bc I'm anemic. so uh, basically consider this a thread-wide reminder to go eat and drink something if you haven't in the last few hours
I mean, technically straight glucose powder would probably be worse using those criteria, though it obviously won't poison you.
Technically you canbe poisoned by anything in sufficient quantities BUT that's neither here nor there.
first rule of toxicology- everything's toxic in large enough quantities. but yeah, alcohol has a muuuuuuch lower lethal dose than straight glucose. and glucose powder/tablets are actually very helpful things for diabetics. alcohol? not so much
