Rules thread derail

Discussion in 'That's So Meta!' started by seebs, Oct 25, 2017.

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  1. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I'd really like a response to a lot of these posts so I'm also wary of throwing even more things in here, but honestly it's up to you albedo. If you feel things will be better for having posted them then I support that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
    • Agree x 1
  2. Fucker

    Fucker Bæsj

    For Christ sake, we are dealing with someone who has repeteadly made folks uncomfortable, has a weird creepy thing for minors, if the things THEY have put online are so bad that they would result in a dogpile, maybe thats a damn hint
     
    • Agree x 2
  3. AbsenteeLandLady124

    AbsenteeLandLady124 Well-Known Member

    Aside from the added impact of multiple people, a lot of whom aren't connected via direct social circles, coming forward with their discomfort, given that a thing ct has speculated on is that it's just specific groups who are uncomfortable.
    Also given I had someone post on an rp sub in my thread that they're still afraid to come forward with how they were treated, idk. I think it's v important that people who have been hurt get to say that they've been hurt, and maybe that'll highlight that it's not just personal grudges.
    In a way this is a healing thing, I think. Hopefully it'll be healing for ct as well, but there is a lot of repressed pain and discomfort. sunlight disinfects.
     
    • Agree x 10
  4. albedo

    albedo metasperg

    That's fair. Briefly, it seemed potentially useful to note that cT's been doing exactly the same stuff people are concerned about for... at least fifteen years, in quite a few forums. She's been called out many times, to little apparent effect.

    "This isn't new and it's not new that people are saying this either" seems useful to know.

    I'm going to request that popcorn.giffing happen elsewhere because I know folks are still trying to have a productive conversation, but... A couple of examples, for data purposes.
    Boundaries regarding underage people and sexual content:
    https://web.archive.org/web/2008061...y/wankitywank/3536.html?thread=344528#t344528
    https://web.archive.org/web/20071204131258/http://wiki.fandomwank.com:80/index.php/Ataniell

    Actively misrepresenting age:
    http://www.gaiaonline.com/profiles/valiska-pines/37180431/?_gaia_t_=718
    " IRL, I'm Kiri, a lolita in San Francisco. I'm quite a bit over 30 and just stopped saying I'm 29."

    Aggressive arguments against feminist criticism of things cT likes:
    Dear [censored]: I find it ironic that you'd mention "The Rules" (by Ellen Fein and Sherrie Schneider) in an article about how women damage their self-respect in relationships by allowing themselves to devalue the worth of their own time, love, and commitment and becoming increasingly needy and dependent on their boyfriends. The reason I find it ironic is that the writer of the article obviously never read the books. The whole point of the Fein and Schneider books (there are two of them, with a third scheduled to be released soon) is about how doing that sort of thing is harmful to you and drives men who might want to love you away. Rules Girls KNOW their time, love, and commitment are worth a lot — that's why they don't call men all the time, chase men who've shown no interest in them, try to force exclusivity or commitment from men who don't ask for them, or linger in live-in boyfriend-girlfriend relationships that last for years and never seem to go anywhere (unless they're divorced and not interested in marrying again). If you don't want to blow $12 on a couple of paperbacks sight unseen, you can always go to www.therulesbook.com, read excerpts from the books, and visit the Rules message boards. Sincerely, [censored]

    I know cT has bitter feelings about fandom_wank, but... she also lists those pseudonyms on her ao3, so I presume they are not super private.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
    • Agree x 8
  5. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    This thread is heated and dealing with heavily upsetting topics for everyone. It really needs to be kept as civil as possible please. If someone asks for mod input I'd really appreciate it if that didn't become "everyone shout all at once."
     
    • Agree x 4
  6. Xefros Tritoh

    Xefros Tritoh New Member

    Hi X:|
    I'm the rp sub anon from Kathy's thread.
    I ended up begging to have an RP sub wiped so that I could cut all ties from the WT.
    Sxared even to say this, to be honest.

    Please don't ping me!
    And thank you Kathy X:)
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
    • Witnessed x 4
  7. AbsenteeLandLady124

    AbsenteeLandLady124 Well-Known Member

    hello, i am glad to see you post. You don't have to elaborate if you aren't comfortable. If you are frightened, it may be a good idea to edit your post and request she not ping you in any response.
     
    • Like x 2
  8. Chiomi

    Chiomi Master of Disaster

    Okay at this point we're on the second page without @cryptoThelematrix having a chance to respond. Should this move to TCHGB?
     
    • Agree x 2
  9. Petra

    Petra space case

    This is definitely turning into a dogpile, jesus christ.
     
    • Agree x 5
  10. Petra

    Petra space case

    To clarify:

    I think it'd important for people to be able to talk about the fact that CT made them uncomfortable and explain why they felt they couldn't mention this. But the thing like, posting IC with an IC fantroll quirk to just go 'oh btw you're super scary but not too scary to rp at' is a bit much.

    I think CT deserves a chance to response and that's most likely to work if people wait and let her catch up and do so. I'm also pretty sure a lot of what's going on here is different responses to abuse trauma and brainbugs from such clashing super badly. I'm not saying that to excuse CT, I'm saying that heightened defensiveness and blurring around sexual boundaries is also something associated with surviving abuse, and I think a lot of people are attributing to malice what's more easily explained by trauma. I'm not going to get into details, that's not my place, but please, there's been productive discussion in this thread, but it'll be most productive going forward if people let CT respond.
     
    • Agree x 6
    • Useful x 1
  11. AbsenteeLandLady124

    AbsenteeLandLady124 Well-Known Member

    Maybe don't try tell people why they're posting things and how though, if that's okay. That's kinda really inappropriate. Also, everybody stopped on request.
     
    • Agree x 11
  12. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    Okay, yeah. I would like to remind people not to rp outside of the rp forum, but also that just because there is a lot coming up at once doesn't necessarily make this a dog pile. I think that we can maintain a balance in the middle here, and I really appreciate people helping make that possible.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
    • Agree x 7
  13. Petra

    Petra space case

    It was literally quirked.
     
  14. palindromordnilap

    palindromordnilap Well-Known Member

    But not completely in-character.
     
  15. AbsenteeLandLady124

    AbsenteeLandLady124 Well-Known Member

    I was referring to this:
    eta, oops missed a bit. that whole last section basically.
    Like, I get that this is all really upsetting, it's upsetting for everyone. That doesn't mean that the only explanation for people having issues with things is trauma, if that makes sense? And I understand that probably wasn't what was meant, but that's how it read to me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
    • Agree x 2
  16. bbbbbbbb

    bbbbbbbb Member

    does it seem implausible that someone might be concealing their identity in a barely tongue-in-cheek way because that makes it .... LESS scary to talk about something that frightens them
     
    • Agree x 10
  17. Cheshire

    Cheshire New Member

    Yeah, I'm going to be honest, it definitely read as a way of preserving the person's anonymity to me.
     
    • Agree x 5
  18. Petra

    Petra space case

    ...sorry, am I not allowed to contribute? I wasn't saying that people aren't right to be upset. I'm saying that CT's bad behavior is rooted in her own abuse trauma, from what I understand, and I'm pointing out that it's also more intimidating than it'd be to the average person if someone has dealt with an abuser that used similar tactics. I was not defending the tactics or the behavior. I was not being dismissive.
    I've got no problem with someone using an rp subaccount to post for anonymity. But it's not really my place to be the validity police, I'm just saying that that was pretty upsetting from another direction.
     
    • Agree x 1
    • Witnessed x 1
  19. AbsenteeLandLady124

    AbsenteeLandLady124 Well-Known Member

    No no, I'm sorry. I forgot to add the rest and the reasoning - it looked like you were trying to theorize on why others had issues and speculating that the issues were rooted in a trauma response, and that made me pretty deeply uncomfortable.
    No harm meant, I'm a little shaky right now and apologize if I accidentally hurt you while trying to explain my own reaction.
     
  20. Carnivorous Moogle

    Carnivorous Moogle whose baby is this

    i'm pretty sure if i never hear 'you were just uncomfortable/felt victimized or alarmed by someone's behavior because you're a survivor of sexual abuse uwu' gaslighting ever again it will be too soon. don't do that thing, thanks.

    edit: posted late if i'm understanding the clarification correctly, my bad. the statement still stands in general because i have seen it many, many times, often by cT herself, alongside literally calling the same people 'batshit' and 'crazy' and 'liars' to discredit them. (while also, funnily enough, playing the telephone game she constantly throws fits about other people supposedly doing to her, with malicious intent. funny that!)
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
    • Agree x 5
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