Shitposting Rave OOC: Anecdata Sharing and Policy Discussion

Yep. I've got a pretty good handle on when I need to say shit.

 

thanks! now i won't get worried when i see your characters being upset.

 

Whoo.

 

(A quick question: would moving these posts over to the other thread cause undue distress? I'm worried about losing the goal of the anecdata thread to gather data for moving forward, but I don't want to report posts to be moved if there's significant desire to avoid doing that.)

 

This seems more like material for that thread, yes. So I am up for moving it.

 

that'd be fine by me.

 

I don't care, but I'd like to talk to you at some point because I think I gave you an impression that I didn't intend and you didn't reply to my reply to you and I'm uncomfortable on top of all that "they are secretly talking about how awful you are" BS.

 

Also I'm not sure how you would move all of it without moving the bits Swirl was replying to ? :/ idk. idk idk idk.

 

I know you've said you're not super comfortable with PMs because of transparency issues (and I get that) so I've been sort of sitting on my thoughts until I can get them in order. Sorry about distressing you like that, I didn't realize how that would come off and I probably should have at least liked the posts in question to let you know I was thinking on it. I saw your posts and understand much better what you were trying to get at, just bluh, words, spoon deficit, etc.

I was planning on leaving your initial post at the end of page 4 and then flagging most of the responses that seemed... more about the response and less about the topic at hand? Including the bit here between you and Ipuntya. (Though leaving most of the responses wrt Norm, because that felt more like debugging?)

This is why I asked though!

 

To clarify I only really want the thing between ct and ipuntya moved because that seems to be reaching actually a fight territory and less the purpose of the thread. The Norm thing and my comments about sharing the emotional state of my characters seem like things that can and should stay.

 

I'm okay with you PMing me.

I asked FL and Ipuntya and CM and Alix not to PM me in the other thread (and I thought I mentioned their names) because of exactly the sort of thing said above (telling a paranoid person that a lot of people sekritly haet them), if someone's going to bait me or claim that I said something I didn't I don't want them to PM.

I didn't mention you--I don't have any reason to distrust you. :) All our interactions have mostly been pleasant or so I believe, and there's no history of you pulling baity shit.

I wish I hadn't made that post at the end of page 4, or at least not all of it, you can move that one too. Please?

Holy fuck it was a lot more inflammatory than I meant it to be and probably badly worded. I know the bit about Lissa that mentioned Wrench was badly worded :/

As long as the quote links still work people can figure out what is being replied to, and swirl restated the important part of my argument. Thanks :)

 

I kind of want people to be able to read the part where I explained that I do know how to tell the difference between IC and OOC, it's just hard in special circumstances. But I trust your all's judgement because mine's kinda fucked right now.

 

Went through and reported everything that looked overtly fighty (sans the OOC/IC divide, because I think that's useful to have here, and the Norm conversation+Aon's contributions, because that's sort of what this thread is for.) If I missed something/misreported something, feel free to correct it whenever things get moved.

 

Sure thing. Thanks for asking and doing that.

 

+1 Thank you.

 

Fifteen days late with Starbucks. No Pizza, I ate it on the way. Sorry guys.

I want to preface this with saying that I am a conflict-avoidant and personally sex-repulsed person, and do not consent to people using the groups of "conflict-avoidant people" and "sex-repulsed people" as bludgeons. If you have an issue, please state it as you having an issue. I personally have an issue with deciphering implications, insinuations, omissions, and other social-noise-but-it's-obvious things.

In the same vein, I will be blunt in this post. It is not intended as an attack, but is the only way in which I can be somewhat sure that I'm getting across what I'm trying to get across. All "yous" will be general, and unless directly quoting, I will not be referencing or addressing anyone in particular, but rather summarize tendencies I have seen.
I understand that anxiety, paranoid, and other related disorders can lead to intrusive thoughts stating otherwise (...I think there's a better wording for that, but hell if I know what at the moment. If anyone has a better wording, feel free to suggest it), but I wish to state that there are no intended secondary, tertiary, ... n-tiary or hidden meanings. What I said is what I mean. If you are unclear what I am trying to say, please feel free to ask for clarification. The whole purpose is to foster communication.

I believe that an argument that rests solely on some nebulous group that might be offended is inherently worthless.
Views and laws on what is proper for whom are a subject to culture and time (for example, but not limited to, the notions regarding sex and sexuality in the Bible Belt versus said notions in Germany, where there is a fair amount of objective sex-ed even in a religious setting; or notions which body parts ought to be covered. Or when it is appropriate to wear which colour). As such there is a possible objection for just about anything.
I believe we should focus on the things that are presently affecting us, and also believe that using some other non-present group that cannot object or contribute as a meatshield is condescending, rude, and detrimental to the topic at hand.

I wish to +1 what @Morven and @swirlingflight said about fostering communication. An environment in which you cannot voice your concerns or are afraid to is less than optimal and not something I'd want much part of, although I have to confess that there have been situations in which I left the SPR because I was uncomfortable both with continuing, and voicing said uncomfortableness. I will try to be better about this.
At this point I also want to make a blanket statement that if any of my characters (the list is somewhere and subject to additions, but I'll add my handle to all my RP Accounts so you can see if the character is mine, and also keep track of the OOC thread so you can have the option of going "@character's mun") upset you, please say so! I'm aware that I have trouble with recognizing boundaries and what goes too far versus what is just good fun. I do not want to hurt anyone, but I can't know if I'm hurting you if you don't tell me.

The following are my personal stances on the boundaries in question, for data purposes. If there is need for clarification, please ping me.

None that I can think of at the moment that aren't caught by the next point.

Explicit sexual discussions. I recognize this is a tricky line and one of the points of contention for this whole thing.
I personally would draw the line at how genitalia is handled, and descriptions of sexual acts. Biology is fine, everything else I would like to see spoilered.

The Full Sex. Please fade to black &/ take it elsewhere.

Noncon, be it physical, sexual, or mental, especially without the ability to interfere.
This has, for me, heavy ties to the "just ignore it" phrase -- It puts me into a state of helplessness, powerlessness, that, as someone who was bullied in school and my a mentally abusive mother while my father just stood there and shrugged, is triggery for me.
There are degrees based on the severity of the situation, but I am, at this point, not awake enough to process and articulate these, however.

[edit]: snipped a bit i had pasted here for reference, it's what cT copied, the complete part is the parapraph just above this.

The fun with antagonistic characters is that you can thwart, or at least hinder them. They are a challenge. An invincible villain who just does as they please and everyone else has to suck it up? Is imo boring grimdark bs that I take great strides to avoid in my media consumption.

No need to spoiler:

• It's a thing that exists
• Biological descriptions (depending on degree of graphicness might be spoiler-worthy)
• Mention/Naming of kinks
• Basic discussion.

Please spoiler:

• Details on sexual acts
• Graphic description of genitalia
• Graphic description of stimulation of erogenous zones

No:

• Complete ban of sexual discussions.

Please note that my lines are a bit wonky and can wiggle based on mood, but those are the ballpark.

Good question.
No need to spoiler:

• Flirting
• PDA

Spoiler please:

• Foreplay
• Pictures. I would include tasteful nudes here as well, even if you can see stuff like that in museums, especially if the crotch area is visible. Chest area nudity should be fine?

No:

• Actual photos. Even if you got them off Wikipedia/whatever for visualisation purposes. Linking at most.
• Complete ban of sexual depictions

Difficult question. See above regarding stuff I don't want to see wrt: Noncon.
General fighting is ok, graphic stuff please spoiler.
Generally, I'd suggest if you want to start shit with another character, you gotta ask their player first. No wanton aggrievances.
Because playing out duels and sparring and moshpits can be a lot of fun, but only if all parties are ok with it.

Big eurgh. See above regarding stuff I don't want to see wrt: Noncon with enforced helplessness. I accept that it can be a very interesting thing to work with, but if no-one else can intervene, then please spoiler.

Consensual, for example in the framework of religion/spirituality is ok.

Sounds very helpful, and serves as a quick reference. +1

If there's enough need for it, sure.
A problem that might come up is that the player base might split, with some people sticking to one and others to the other. Although this is not necessarily bad?

Might be worth a try? Probably easier to implement than the one above.

As a last point, I want to add my thoughts wrt Rave Magic:
It has its advantages, but it also leaves the possibility open to enforce the helplessness I've been mentioning throughout the post. I disagree with completely abolishing it, I enjoy throwing in random people and polishing their character and skillsets, and the wibbly-wobbly nature of the Rave helps with that.
But it has been abused to make people uncomfortable by ignoring their boundaries and "nos". That needs to stop, and this is why we're having that conversation.
I remember Swirlingflight posting a tumblr post about competing access needs in the other thread. It's a good and important read. From what I have seen is that there are some conflicting boundaries, and that is a thing that definitely needs talked about. There probably is no solution that will make everyone happy, but I am willing to compromise.

 

These parts of your post resonate with me deeply, particularly the "just ignore it" thing which I was also told about school bullying.

Also after some long thought on the issue, I think my problem with the whole "Rave Magic allows your character to not notice things that are going on right in front of them even in the middle of conversations that they are having with someone" and my inability to process that has its roots in the fact that my mother is a master gaslighter.

In order to come out of my childhood as marginally sane as I am, I had to spend a lot of mental and emotional energy NOT allowing people to convince me that things I knew I'd seen happen weren't real.