So, I'm concerned that I might be a somewhat skeevy person.

thanks!

anyway, dissecting the quote, i found some stuff that lead me to this conclusion and so first, i will go through it explaining/showing what parts pinged as "ah, that makes sense and explains a lot about you and your problems."

it's hard to explain but i think your focus on being a Good Person and believing What Is Right, which you mentioned here, even when you genuinely have no clue, is sometimes counterproductive and harmful. like, it's the wrong way to frame the issue, and it leads you to feel judgemental towards the people who disagree with you, to be too harsh on yourself, to disregard what other people say about their feelings in pursuit of an abstract idea of Goodness, and to think of morality as something determined in black-and-white by some kind of ultimate authority, instead of as an organic, nuanced thing that takes the circumstances into account. that's what i initially got from thinking about the quote and how it relates to your behaviour, and still a big part of my general conclusion about it.

anyway, now i've said that, i'm unsure where exactly to continue with it or if it made sense, so i'm gonna stop this post here and invite responses/commentary by you and the other people reading the thread.

 

That makes sense, I suppose. I'm on my lunch break and need to get back to work right now but I'll reply more later

 

okay

 

@BlackholeKG Not sure of your current life situation, but ftr would recommend studying a degree in philosophy if college is a thing you might be interested in, because having classes about specifically "logic" "ethics" "fundamental questions of theology and philosophy" etc (and in my case a lot of theology courses because I could from an academic side) helped a ton in making sense of those internal conflicts for me. There are a LOT of questions you are trying to ask yourself all at once here and trying to do everything at once will always overwhelm you in any subject/thought project. Especially when many of them are by nature questions without definitive answers.

I am trying to think if I have one or two particularly important things I could pluck out from my study. I think they would be:

1. It is okay to be wrong.
2. It is okay not to know.

I promise. It's okay.

 

(I didn't read the 2nd page, just for the record)

So! I have pretty much zero empathy and very little need to be polite or make people feel good about themselves. I'm not blunting or softening my estimation of you here, so you don't need to be paranoid that I'm "letting you off easy". This is what I've observed.

1. You're way, way, way obsessed with how you are perceived and how your actions and thoughts impact others. It's maladaptive and misdirected. You're just...not that important to most people, frankly. Most people care so much more about themselves and about agonizing over their own thoughts/actions than about dissecting other peoples'. That's doubly true in a forum setting like this, where half the time someone reading your post may not even know you from other posts or have a cohesive mental idea of you as an individual.

1a) That leads to you centering discussion on yourself more than is generally polite, in a way that I frequently read as needy/desperate. Note that nowhere did I say "creepy" or "manipulative"; you come across as genuinely kinda terrified that you're Bad and Worthless, and very insecure/in need of reassurance because of it. It doesn't seem like a ploy to direct attention to yourself, it seems like you're quite afraid that you're whiny, unremarkable, rude, and bad.

1b) I've noticed that you default to analyzing your thoughts and behavior out loud in minute detail when you're worried, which can sometimes be helpful in terms of working out your own stuff (like in this thread or others where mental health stuff is the topic), but can sometimes be a detriment (when you're obsessing over things that barely make any impact, or talking yourself in circles, or sidetracking a discussion of other topics).
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2. Nah, dude, you aren't faking, you do have issues. The fear that you're falsely convincing yourself that you have issues? Is an issue. Your constant hypervigilance regarding your actions and values? Issues. Etc. They don't need to have obvious causes like abuse or other trauma to exist and be worth addressing.

3. Your obsession with sex/being a virgin does come up a lot. Feeling that way isn't suuuper unusual, and it sucks that knowing rationally that sex isn't a magical thing that will fix your self esteem and make your problems go away doesn't make it easy to stop feeling that way about it, more's the pity. It's fine and normal to be worried, resentful, and sad about feeling left behind and unwanted. It'll probably change, but it'll stay frustrating a lot of the time. Working to de-emphasize how important sex is to your self-worth might be good, but yeah again, not easy. ​

4. I don't read all that much of what goes on over at the R/R thread, so I can't speak to your personal contributions there. However, from what I've seen, that thread does have a tendency to get mean-spirited from time to time in order to make the posters feel cool and powerful. Cool and powerful is an enticing way to feel - especially when you're feeling overall insecure about yourself - so it might be good to just keep an eye out for what you are getting out of that thread, and where those feelings come from. Using a sense of moral superiority or mocking people to feel strong/clever/good isn't generally a very lasting solution (particularly if your self worth is low to start with and you're prone to anxiety about your value). That's definitely not the only thing that goes on in that thread, and I'm not saying you need to avoid it or that your posts there are harmful (again, I don't remember what you've posted there), only that it is something to keep in mind.

5. Re: gender stuff, multiple options seem plausible to me. You might be trans or otherwise not-quite-cis; you might be cis and thinking yourself into a corner about it; you might be either one plus responding to the fact that online, newly-out trans peopls get a lot of vocal support (which you want directed at you). None of that is morally bad or weak or manipulative; the problem is if it's causing you distress.
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Those are the main issues that come to mind. I steered away from advice or suggestions, for the most part, because this is long enough already and you asked about our impressions of you, not our input on what to do. FWIW, I think you're fine to stay on Kintsugi and I don't think you're notably creepy, entitled, or whiny other than that your focus on worrying about your perceived flaws/failings is sometimes uncomfortable for others.

 

Okay, this is a lot to think about. Bear with me.

It's... a tricky thing. When it comes to moral stances, it's sort of inevitable that at some point "judgements" of a sort will come into play sometimes when a situation arises where you honestly believe that somebody is doing something wrong. Not that I think it's good to be "judging" people left, right and center when they are obviously well meaning and it's just a simple disagreement... There's a line somewhere and I try not to cross it, not least of all because thinking that I have the authority to be "judging" people is very condescending and I don't wish to be like that. Emotions can sometimes come into play though. I try to do my best, I think.

Morality is nuanced, of course it is. However, my perspective is that, in any given moral dilemma, there is going to be an "objective" solution that evenly balances harm levels. I don't think it's possible to ever really determine that "ideal" morality, I think it's... really beyond what people are capable of, but it's something I try to aspire to.

The reason for that is that I honestly don't trust myself unless I'm making a huge effort towards objective "goodness". Because my feeling and emotions and initial assumptions are often in direct contrast to what is the right stance or action in a given situation. One thing I've become aware of is that I have a tendency to be hugely biased in my emotions and assumptions, for various reasons ranging from culture to lack of perspective or understanding to plain selfishness. Now, I regard this as a personal failing that is no excuse for my then committing actions or voicing opinions that are harmful because of it. You mention this;

It's not that I don't have a clue, really... it's that I don't first and foremost trust my own judgement. If there's a particular stance, and people I trust to be Right About Things saying "this is correct" even if I don't understand it, then I try to bring my way around to their way of thinking, see their rationale, and argue the point anyway even if I'm not on fully solid ground internally.

This is not to say that I don't trust my own judgement where appropriate and I'm not following other people's words blindly but if for instance a large number of people of a given minority were to tell me I was doing something offensive to them then it would seem more plausible to me that I had the wrong end of the stick than that they have. The same goes for if I find that somebody I generally hold to be particularly trustworthy has a particular stance that I don't at first mirror - of course I put all such judgements to scrutiny as I must in order to make sure I am doing the right thing but the important point is that I don't think that my failure to understand a point or my own internal biases are valid excuses for doing something harmful. There are no excuses for causing somebody unnecessary pain, and so as soon as I am convinced that that is likely to be what is happening I put their wellbeing ahead of my likely failings.

I'm due to study film at university, so there's no room for me to take any philosophy courses, but I appreciate the idea. And I mean, even if I'm not as good as I might be at answering those questions I still don't think it's something that I can't to, just something that's a little harder than it might be if I were to have some sort of formal training or something like what you suggest. But it's my duty to try to be the best person I can anyway, I think.

Thank you.

Thank you, I appreciate that assurance.

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While it is true that my own actions and thoughts are generally pretty inconsequential in the big scheme of things, I don't think that means that we shouldn't be trying to individually strive to be good people. But I mean yes, maybe I'm giving a little too much voice to that struggle. But I suppose one of the main reasons I post here is so that I can air and maybe seek help with struggles and personal problems that generally otherwise remain internalised. Perhaps that's selfish but I also was under the impression that that was one of the functions of these sections of the website... Hmm.

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I'm sorry, needy and desperate kinda are bywords for a lot of my personality. And, I suppose I apologize for that. I would like to do something about it, but I mean... my posting here is me trying to do something about it, I guess. I air a lot of stuff on Kintsugi, in a manner that probably isn't ordinarily socially acceptable. But I mean, I need somewhere to do that. Or at least, I don't think not airing it would be particularly helpful. Unless people really do want me to stop? I don't know - if people want to request that then it's always an option.

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Again, sorry. I try to keep it to my own threads. Sorry.

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I don't know. I feel mostly fine a lot of the time. I don't know what's up with me. I never seem to settle into a constant pattern, which makes me worry that I'm really just playing things up for attention on a subconscious level. And I might be deceiving people here by only describing my experiences when I'm at my worst. It's misrepresentation at worst, I don't really have it all that bad, I don't and I think that needs to be recognised.

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Yeah. I don't know what to add to this, other than that you're right with it.

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God, I don't know. I don't know my own motivations. Why do I keep posting there? It's sort of a centerpiece thread for the community. There's a really sense of community spirit there. A common enemy thing? It's probably a bad thing, how riled up and invested we get there. But it does serve a lot of good purposes, even if it might be something of an over-response to the situation.

Something tells me that it might be a bad thing, the way that a lot of us are so involved in the "hate Ray" train. It's probably bad an unhealthy. I don't know. I don't know what to do about it. I don't want to stop following the thread while everyone else is still there. I don't know I tried saying "maybe we should drop this" when I first arrived and of course "dropping" it isn't the answer, but I mean, I'm not sure how investment in the situation could be lowered without dropping it entirely. So it's like people are stuck or locked in, I feel that way sometimes. I don't think it's helpful to have showing animosity towards somebody and making jokes at their expense a regular part of the daily community routine, no matter how horrible they are. It's probably a bad pattern but I don't know how to stop it. I mean, not just for myself but everyone is pulled into the whole thing. I'm sure most of them for good reasons, and I mean, the jokes are kinda necessary, but... I don't know. I don't have many reference points on that I mean the only reference points I have are this community and Ray's side and this community is invested in doing the thread in that way and I don't know. Maybe this needs to be discussed elsewhere.

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If I'm subconsciously faking being trans for attention that feels kinda manipulative to me. I don't know... I just don't know. I have no idea what the truth is, how can I know? It's a fucking nightmare and no mistake because there are no definite "this is what this is" indicators. I don't know, god damn it...

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Okay. I'm sorry for that, I can try... I don't know how I can be less focused on things because I am focused on them and this is my Place to talk about them and well... there you are. Thank you for your responses.

Thank all of you for your responses also.

 

Some thoughts having read through this thread and some of your others.

You really can lighten up on the hyper-vigilance with yourself. You have good intentions and try to avoid harming people and that's the most important part. It's ok if your thoughts and feelings don't always align with what you think is Right. I don't think most people's do, I know mine certainly don't. Expecting your thoughts and feelings to also be Good is an unrealistic expectation for yourself and I don't think it's one you'd hold others to. If you try to be less hyper vigilant with yourself, you might stumble and make some mistakes as you figure out a balance there. And that's perfectly fine! But a lot of your problems seem to come from you being overly worried about having or not having problems. Or being convinced that you must have this problem and you're trying to show us this while also secretly trying to not show us this. Basically, your subconscious is probably a lot less involved than you worry about.

tl;dr for the above paragraph: you've got some pretty big issues with anxiety and self-esteem there and yes they are Real Problems with capital letters and everything. If you ever can, show this thread and maybe some of your others to a mental health professional and I will bet money they will go "that sure is some Problems with anxiety you got there"

Wrt to the CDCF threads, as someone who's been posting there since the start but not been one of Ray's targets or close friends with any of his targets (saying that not as a status thing or anything like that, but just as a disclaimer of where I'm coming from): I don't think it's unhealthy for reasons mostly boiling down to
1. There's pretty good reasons for why something in the thread is the way it is
2. Most of the meaness just comes from people venting their frustrations there
3. We do a pretty good job of saying "no that's too far" and keeping each other accountable

You seem to have a need to participate in anything that you perceive as being Important to the Community as if there was some secret requirement that you must participate in X, Y and Z threads to be Part of the Community (there's really not) (btw, i dont think cdcf is as central to things as you think it is). On it's own, that might not be a problem but you also seem to have a hard time backing out of things. Together that strikes me as kinda unhealthy.

 

Seconding everything Mala said.

Yep, but you take it to an unhealthy extreme that seems to be way more focused on admonishing yourself than is helpful. Everyone is "hugely biased in their emotions and assumptions" based on culture/lack of perspective/selfishness. You must accept this. It is a fact. Of course, the ideal is to not harm people with decisions based on ignorance/etc, but the practical fact of the matter is that you cannot eliminate bias. Obsessively trying to do so, with the notion that failing to make progress and become "good"/unselfish/knowledgeable/logical means you're bad, is a recipe for continued low self esteem and misjudgment of what's healthy and reasonable. It also makes you more likely to be overly judgmental of others.

Again: in theory, that is fine. In reality, you hold yourself under a level of nervous scrutiny that is fairly absurd, from my perspective.

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That's not what I'm talking about. Obviously they're pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme; I'm talking about how much the exact details of your motivations affect the people you're in contact with, and how much those people internally think about and criticize your motivations (i.e. far less than you appear to believe).

Also not what I'm talking about. The issue isn't that you're talking too much about it; the issue is that you're thinking about it too frequently and with too much panicky certainty that absolutely every theoretically harmful thought you have or opinion you voice is a morally-judgeable offense.

Agreed, roughly speaking. Again, to drive this point home: the issue isn't that you're talking too much about it and bothering others; the issue is that you're thinking about it too much and hurting yourself.

The apologies are entirely unnecessary, and once again, still not what I was trying to get at. Talking about this stuff because you're worried and afraid isn't bad, manipulative, or whiny. On the other, completely separate hand, talking especially frequently about it is often not a desirable trait in a conversational partner or friend, so it might benefit you in terms of making/keeping friends to try to focus less on it. As with all mental health issues, that's easier said than done, and the fact that it's a goal does not mean you should try to skip right to that step by bottling up what you're anxious about.

Nah, it really doesn't "need to be recognized". It's irrelevant. There isn't a finite amount of talking-about-peoples'-issues time to be had on this forum or in the world, and it's reaaally obvious that you aren't mentally A-okay. That's inherently worth trying to ameliorate.

I personally think it veers into over-response territory, and it's something I continue to think seebs isn't handling all that well, but your response here is another example of you getting flustered and anxious about Good versus Bad in situations where it's not solely one or the other, and not really your responsibility overall anyway (only your contributions to it are). But yeah, not the point of this thread.

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Here's the question (which I think you often lose sight of in general): regardless of theoretical Badness, what is the harm of you thinking you might be trans? Even if it's "fake" (which is itself an idea I don't think has merit, because gender is a mismash of things rather than being singularly defined and uniformly identifiable, and it literally c a n n o t be "faking" to wonder if you're trans)? The answer: there is none. No one is harmed. The only harmable person in that scenario is yourself, and that's only if you end up making decisions that turn out to increase your unhappiness rather than decreasing it (e.g. transitioning could end up making you less comfortable and feeling more pressured/unhappy/insecure, or not-transitioning could continue to make you feel trapped and bad). Also, the pros/cons & effects of those decisions are not likely to become dramatically clearer before you make them. Unfortunately, hindsight and experience are much better indicators than anything you're like to be able to reason out. In my experience from my own life and talking to the many trans people I know, your own gender is extremely resistant to being reasoned through logically/analytically. The goal is to end up more content than you would have been otherwise, and that's all there is to it.

 

Drive-by pedanting, there's one problem of "faking trans" that comes to mind, and it's the problem of talking over others' experiences. If somebody says "well I'm trans therefore my perspective is the only one that matters, even those other trans people with conflicting opinions shouldn't contradict me," that's a problem.

Otherwise, it's identity exploration, and it does no harm.

 

That...isn't a problem of faking being trans, though. That's a problem of ignoring and denigrating other peoples' input, and I'm not sure where you're connecting that to someone faking transness.

 

Being female has nothing to do with how angry you get and how much of a sex drive you have.

I'm not sexually attracted to a lot of people but when I am it's a fucking tidal wave and it really knocks me for a loop. I have a huge sex drive when I am sexually attracted to someone and in a relationship and I also get angry a lot and when I get angry, sometimes I REALLY get angry.

I am also afab, cis and incredibly femme. Getting horny and getting pissed off a lot do not make you not-a-girl.

I used to want to slug this one guy friend of mine who'd ask me for advice about how to get his girlfriend to be more into sex because I must know since women have lower sex drives than men and he wouldn't believe me when I told him I was not the person to ask because I did not have a problem responding to visual sexual stimuli or have a low sex drive AT ALL.

So far as I can tell, what makes you a girl/woman is feeling like one, because there are not really any exclusively masculine or feminine personality traits.

 

I'm saying, "this is literally the only thing related to faking being trans that I can think of as being a problem. Literally the only one. And it has nothing to do with what you're doing. Ergo....... you're not causing problems."

I'm saying, "this absurdly not-connected thing is the only thing that could be a problem. Calling yourself trans when you're not 100% certain that you are is so not a problem that I had to reach this far to find something even vaguely, tangentially connected to call it a problem. That's how not-a-problem it is."

This is a thing that would be helpful to me. YMMV.

 

I guess the main suggestion I have re: gender is just experiment with it! Presentation, pronouns, anything you feel safe doing. Something might feel right to you.