He's not incredibly subtle. He thinks he's subtle. But...he's really not. But also Ratchet, Chromedome, Rewind, and Whirl were the only real witnesses for now, and Tailgate doesn't photograph well, so it'll probably take a while before Rodimus and everyone else on board realizes they have a noodle monster in a marshmallow body on board. And by then, he's not just any noodle monster - he's their adorable noodle monster! He also doesn't have a firm grasp on how death works yet, so that's...fun...
AHAHAHA, PERFECT! First he tries to kiss Cyclonus with the mouth-ish region of his shell, but it is gut-churningly wrong when the solid plating tries to move like lips, and Cyclonus is like 'you need to sTOP,' and Tailgate's like 'booooooooo lame, I guess I'll just be boring and use my real mouth, then'
Spoiler: cywhirlgate convo between me and [USER=113]@IvyLB[/USER] cut for length [12:48 PM] winterykite: imagine whirl forgetting wanting to die whenever hes annoying cyclonus. it's not an obvious thing. annoying cyclonus is basically a deathwish. whirl who, without noticing it himself (lbr that thought gets buried under detached audials and loud singing whenever it rears its head), wanting to witness the soap opera that is cyclonus and tailgates relationship more than he wants to not be. (wanting to be part of it) [12:51 PM] IvyLB: Awwwww [12:55 PM] winterykite: considering that while whirl has little self-preservation instinct (or is good at suppressing it) in battle situations, but hasn't trid to off himself yet by other means (like red alert) s far as weve seen, i wonder if its because he wants to die in battle, or if theres a tiny part deep down that wants to want to be alive [12:58 PM] IvyLB: He has said as much I think? Or maybe that's fanon, but he wants the death to stick so he needs someone to kill him [12:58 PM] winterykite: aah [12:58 PM] winterykite: whirl you idiot [12:59 PM] winterykite: go talk to your moirail and get your aass on antidepressants [1:02 PM] winterykite: whirl and cyclonus are idiots who deserve each other [1:04 PM] winterykite: (cyclonus who wakes up one day with the realization that he cares about whirl. when did this happen. how did this happen. this is too much caring. he did not sign up for this. why.) [1:06 PM] winterykite: tailgate meanwhile is chipper because hey, cyclonus made another friend! [1:30 PM] IvyLB: hahahhaha yes [1:31 PM] IvyLB: wanna bet cy then engages in an extended period of denial/courting/no definitly denial wrt wanting to be Whirl's Amica? :P [1:31 PM] winterykite: def [1:32 PM] winterykite: tailgate smells something is up [1:32 PM] winterykite: whirl refuses to acknowledge that that is whats happening [1:34 PM] winterykite: mostly because it cant be and even if he maybe sometimes (every second night or so) when he was knockout drunk (stone cold sober) examined the thought because it's ridiculous right (he wants it so badly), there's no way that cyclonus would want him as an amica [1:35 PM] IvyLB: okay that's ust mean stop making me feel things over them so much again [1:36 PM] winterykite: you dragged me into robot hell [1:36 PM] winterykite: you brough this onto yourself [1:37 PM] winterykite: tailgate quietly jealous but hey if it makes cyclonus happy? until he makes the amica connection [1:38 PM] winterykite: (tailgate trying to give whirl the "dont you dare hurt him" talk) [1:38 PM] IvyLB: asdfghj [1:39 PM] IvyLB: what if poly amicas tho [1:39 PM] winterykite: its a quadrantblurring triad in the end [1:39 PM] IvyLB: what if whirl kinda is into them both but he can't, that's presumptuous right? [1:39 PM] winterykite: yess [1:40 PM] winterykite: tailgate trying to auspistice the pitch element in whirls and cyclonus relationship if it gets out of hand because those two have issues(edited) [1:40 PM] winterykite: (tailgate dragging them into a pile and making them all talk it out) [1:41 PM] winterykite: whirl honestly confessing his feelings in the hopes it will get him killed (in the hopes that theyll accept him) [1:43 PM] IvyLB: s t o p [1:43 PM] IvyLB: you are doing my fragily little heart an ouch [1:43 PM] winterykite: >::3 [1:44 PM] winterykite: how long do they take with the talking-it-out-in-the-pile [1:45 PM] winterykite: at some point the other mechs notice. some are worried. there is a betting pool at swerve's. im not sure anyone suspected them to get out of that room all in one piece each but also in an official relationship [1:45 PM] IvyLB: sdfghk [1:46 PM] winterykite: that bet mightve come from someone who was absolutely hammered drunk and put it in as gag bet because it sounded like a good idea at the time and there had been much hooting [1:46 PM] IvyLB: i bet it takes forever though, because Cyclonus is a grump who can't acknowledge his own feelings if they are dancing buck naked in front of him and Whirl is afraid of his own feelings [1:46 PM] IvyLB: and tailgate is just between them, holding them both down in the pile because NUH-UH YOU WILL STOP RUNNING AWAY FROM THIS IMMEDIATELY!!!! [1:47 PM] winterykite: would whirl gleefully spoiler tailgate on cyclonus feelings just to be an ass [1:47 PM] winterykite: tailgate does the stern-and-simultanously-sad-puppy-look somehow [1:47 PM] winterykite: its very effective [1:49 PM] IvyLB: hehehehe [1:52 PM] winterykite: tailgate doing the "but why" dance to whirls evasions until all the self-hatred just comes bubbling out [1:53 PM] winterykite: tailgate cries and hugs whirl and refuses to let go until cyclonus tries to remove himself from the pile. [1:54 PM] IvyLB: then tailgate hugs Cy too [1:54 PM] IvyLB: HUG PILE [1:54 PM] IvyLB: Cyclonus and Whirl both regret the day Tailgate got superstrength [1:55 PM] winterykite: (can i drop this in the tf thread?) [2:00 PM] winterykite: tbh i bet its rung who connects the dots [2:29 PM] winterykite: cyclonus wanting to say something to whirl but drawing blanks. as always. feelings are hard and whatever he says should mean something. but that would mean that he'd have to acknowledge his own feelings. [2:32 PM] winterykite: meanwhile whirl remembers the whole "too good to be true" thing and starts annoying cyclonus again. at some point cyclonus is like "... whirl you're annoying" (hah! he knew it) "but i value your insight" (wait what)(edited) [3:01 PM] IvyLB: Ye feel free [3:07 PM] winterykite: i mean, the "i value your input because you dont pull any punches" isnt new but it's how cyclonus feels
@TwoBrokenMirrors and I have been thinking about Pipes a lot yesterday and today and we would like to propose an AU. The Pipes Prime AU Spoiler: part 1: the origin story Mirrors-Gestern um 23:45 Uhr idw pipes' rootmode was just ur generic car thing right? iirc? something like that? altnode ..altmode IvyLB-Gestern um 23:45 Uhr i think? I have a hard time remembering altmodes sometimes :P Mirrors-Gestern um 23:47 Uhr yeah in generations it's apparently a truck much like op's IvyLB-Gestern um 23:50 Uhr wow Pipes Prime Mirrors-Gestern um 23:50 Uhr pfahahaha better than the canon end IvyLB-Gestern um 23:50 Uhr I MEAN THE G1 MOVIE MADE A POINT OF RODDY CHANGING ALTMODE TO TRUCK UPON GOING PRIME so really I am going to hc that pipes never died, he went Prime Mirrors-Gestern um 23:52 Uhr this is the perfect headcanon let's work out how it could happen IvyLB-Gestern um 23:54 Uhr rodimus just left his piece of the matrix lying around(bearbeitet) no okay but what if post Overlord's murderstuck homage Rodimus feels drawn to Pipes' body for some reason he can't explain it but heck gut feeling's a gut feeling so he goes and sits with him and then his chest compartment just opens without his say so this is very alarming but then Rodimus realizes that Pipes' frame hasn't greyed yet, even though it should and that, more importantly, there's a seam in his chestplate, slowly trying to open despite all the dents and then Rodimus just kind of stops questioning things and does what feels right and someone then comes in seeing Rodmus trying to wrench open a "corpse"'s chest compartment and then stuffing half a matrix in there and that actually magically heals Pipes the same way it did with rodimus in IDW the end Mirrors-Gestern um 23:59 Uhr i literally love it IvyLB-Heute um 00:00 Uhr and then rodimus and pipes bond over being chosen and healed by the matrix and then maybe make out a little ... i accidentally made it gay
[Preceded by discussion of "No Guns, No Swords, No Briefcases" at the end of MTMTE #50] Spoiler: part 2: -adds more mechs to ship- IvyLB-Heute um 17:00 Uhr i am now headcanoning that Pipes had a massive crush on the following people, ranked in order: 1) Riptide, 2) Hubcap, 3) Drift, 4) Rodimus, 5) Tailgate, 6) actually kinda everyone on board Mirrors-Heute um 17:00 Uhr PIPES OH NO pipes, baby [...] Mirrors-Heute um 17:18 Uhr he did not deserve to end as he did IvyLB-Heute um 17:19 Uhr no he didn't and it was awful Mirrors-Heute um 17:19 Uhr i am now declaring the pipes prime au to be canon IvyLB-Heute um 17:19 Uhr YES GOOD Mirrors-Heute um 17:19 Uhr it is hearby declared that pipes is still alive and thriving IvyLB-Heute um 17:20 Uhr yes good Mirrors-Heute um 17:21 Uhr and kissing rodimus IvyLB-Heute um 17:22 Uhr hehehehehe i approve of this notion! (also this means Pipes can join Tailgate in the ranks of wee tiny Primes) Mirrors-Heute um 17:23 Uhr miniature prime brigade is a go IvyLB-Heute um 17:24 Uhr a council of primes rodimus for the looks, Tailgate for the lifting and Pipes for the heart they all make out Mirrors-Heute um 17:25 Uhr yes. good. excellent. continue IvyLB-Heute um 17:26 Uhr Tailgate throws Optimus into the sun Mirrors-Heute um 17:26 Uhr snrk nooo optimus gets to go to rehab camp megatron gets to live quietly on a moon somewhere with a dog IvyLB-Heute um 17:27 Uhr yes good I feel like starscream should be added to the pile but that's because I am RodiScream trash Mirrors-Heute um 17:28 Uhr starscream prime is for some level of actual political knowledge, probably IvyLB-Heute um 17:29 Uhr hahahahah yes Mirrors-Heute um 17:29 Uhr the at least partly competent one IvyLB-Heute um 17:29 Uhr yes and also because he needs many smooches Mirrors-Heute um 17:30 Uhr he's the biggest, so the other three can just sleep on him (wait if we have tailgate where does cyclonus come in) IvyLB-Heute um 17:31 Uhr cyclonus is Tailgate Prime's consort bodyguard Mirrors-Heute um 17:31 Uhr yes good IvyLB-Heute um 17:31 Uhr riptide is Pipes' Mirrors-Heute um 17:32 Uhr hahahahaha excellent IvyLB-Heute um 17:36 Uhr they have a court full of poly love and debauchery fit to occur in ancient rome they also don't have a throne, they have like a couch bench for all of them to lounge around on Mirrors-Heute um 17:37 Uhr yup it fits all four of them i feel like you need to share all this with the tf thread
Spoiler: MTMTE Tyrest Arc Well, to be fair, Tyrest was also the one who attempted to negotiate a treaty and peace between the Decepticons and the Autobots early in the war, having correctly recognized that fighting would tear the species apart in horrible ways. While he failed to broker lasting peace, it's likely things would have been even more atrocious without his efforts and without the war laws he drafted and got both sides to sign. Furthermore, it is canon that the only Cybertronians convicted of war crimes by the Aequitas or whatever it was called were cold-constructed, we just don't know why. Tyrest was wrong in his horrified conclusion that cold-constructed cybertronians were born tainted, but whatever lead to that outcome is horrifying, and perhaps he could accept his (bigoted, wrong) conclusion easier than the conclusion that the supercomputer they'd been working on for lord knows how long was fallible, that an outside source had hacked in, or that they'd somehow programmed bigotry into it. Finally, I'll note that his response to this was just to leave and seclude himself in self-harming guilt until he accidentally drilled holes in his brain and gave himself severe brain damage, which is when he first hears 'angels singing to him' and decides that genocide is totally moral. Even Ultra Magnus notes his severe personality shift after that. While I doubt Tyrest was perfect and pure before the brain damage, I think it's something that has to be taken into consideration re: the extremity and motivation behind his genocidal actions!
Oh yes!!! I actually really enjoy Tyrest as a character a lot! I just think that it takes a pretty deep dig to find the sympathetic side of his character, and I think Ray's way too superficial to read that far into him. I really, really love the intense guilt that must have come with his realization that all these cold constructed bots are doing these awful things. Because if he's an engineer, he's almost gotta be familiar with the idea that 'correlation does not imply causation.' But then you're confronted with the reality of how all these (supposed) coincidences are piling up, and maybe there's no evidence to suggest there's a REASON cold constructed bots would be less moral than forged bots. But look at all these cases piling up! Like, I have to imagine that it's the kind of thing where... So say you're getting on in years. And you've never had a romantic partner. And you really want a partner, and the obvious thing is just 'you haven't met the right person yet.' And that goes on and on, and that's the reassurance that you hold onto, but the more history piles up, the more it eats at you that '.....maybe the problem is that there's something deeply wrong with me.' I dunno if there's a better parallel case for Tyrest, hahaha, my brain got stuck on that one :P But I am a sucker for that kind of deep, gnawing worry that just eats you from the inside out. And we don't know most of the evidence Aequitas had, but it must have been pretty awful. Then Tyrest presiding over these trials and having to absorb all the evidence being presented while you've got that awful guilt eating at you, but also not being able to confide in anyone, because one, where's your evidence. Two, even if you are right, who could you ever tell that you're the person who's ultimately responsible for all these atrocities? It's all just so terrible!!! (´▽`ʃƪ) So I really love his reaction being able to retreat to Luna I and self-harm in solitude. I do the wounded animal thing where it's like oh, I am in pain, let me find a secluded place to hide and suffer, that will definitely be productive. It's my favorite when there are characters like that. And once it's at that point, I love the escalation to problem-solving in this awful, genocidal way, not in the I-agree-with-this way, but in a I-disagree-but-I-saw-how-you-got-here-and-dude-that-was-pretty-tragic way. Once it gets into sending the Legislators to capture the Circle of Light and use them as guinea pigs, I'm way offboard, but it's really sad seeing Tyrest go from being one of the preeminent engineers and judicial officials in Cybertronian history to... this. I love his character arc to pieces.
Although I have to wonder if Tyrest ruled out bias in the system only getting cold constructed bots charged with all this, or like... do we know if there's more cc bots than forged bots, for Cybertron in specific near the end of the war?
Oooooh, those are good questions!!! Even in the present, after hot spots have been gone for millions of years, you still had Brainstorm tossing off that 'equal rights for knock-offs' line, however jokey it was, and Whirl says he was forged in a way that's like... very 'forged is better' vibe. Plus, given how long ago natural hot spots stopped happening and the crazy-high mortality rates during the war, I'd definitely believe that cold constructed bots make up a huge chunk of the war's survivors. Oh! And I think waaaaaay back in the thread, there was some discussion of Getaway's origin story, which was after they'd stopped giving cold constructed bots even a basic education and just let them thaw out as they dumped them on a battlefield, and how maybe this kind of trauma could have led to the robot equivalent of impaired development. Gah, I'm too tired to properly articulate my thoughts here, but it's like looking at how a significant portion of serial killers were abused as kids. Loads of abused kids grow up into non-serial-killing adults, but lots of serial-killing adults were abused as children. Blahhhh, what are words, how do communicate. But would be cool to know if the shitty hand they were dealing the MTOs helped fuck some of them over in the long term, not just in the cannon fodder life expectancy.
Yeah. Basically I'd believe the trend was real, just not the conclusion Tyrest reached. But despite their knowledge of mnemosurgery, Cybertronians don't seem to have a very good grasp of psychology. Just look at how many major characters tie back to Rung because there's not a lot of other competent therapists. EDIT: I was also going to point out Prowl canonically had a hand in more than a few of those horrific war crimes but always managed to be placed as a witness and never tried himself, but I think he's cold constructed, too? War Crimes Prowl is an outlier and should not be counted.
I'm reading the windblade second mineries and man the first three issues are REALLY disconnected. And the art shift is hella jarring.
...so, here's a question, issue three of TAAO. Spoiler Cybertronians don't breathe, what is the point of the respirator on Swindle? Also WOW is that the enigma of combination because that sounds like an unspeakably terrible idea. Also, stop trying to make me give a shit about the GI Joes, comic.
They don't breathe, but it could be providing... helpful gasses? Or PREVENTING a venting of something harmful uncontrolled. Also, the GI Joe stuff is surprisingly compelling in Revolution. Not enough to make me want to read the GI Joe comics for any sort of backstory, but it's all mixed in really well. Like the massive crossover is massive but also... everything is playing into everything else and weaving together to make a compelling story? Spoiler: Revolution Also G.I. Joe gets replaced by a shapeshifting alien and then said alien gets reduced to a carbon smear on the ground and the real Joe is probably either dead or shoved in a closet somewhere so, that's interesting. Most of the focus of the G.I. Joe portion of the plot has been on Scarlett.
