Undertale - Pet dogs and date a skeleton!

undertale/deltarune theory thing:

so the Dark Worlds seem to exist retroactively. like, a Fountain is made and its corresponding Dark World is created with a retroactively existing history (I saw a theory that the Knight only exists in the past, never in the present, as a result of this).

and apparently there's a prophecy that the world is going to end, and Deltarune doesn't change the ending of Undertale.

so: the world is going to end, and somehow the heroes - or someone but probably the heroes - end up creating a new one using a method similar to that used to make a Fountain. but it doesn't create a regular dark world - instead it creates a pocket universe with the inhabitants of Hometown + a bunch of other monsters, and gives it a retroactive history

the most filled-in, firmly existing history is the living-memory stuff, especially the recent living-memory stuff

it's not always entirely consistent, and it definitely isn't entirely consistent with the surface world it got linked to (eventually), and monster biology got screwed up so they're a lot more construct-like and boss monsters are especially weird with their 'halving generation size' thing, but hey, for a world made out of the last dregs of a post-Roaring universe, it works pretty well!

and the surface world even started to properly exist after a while!

(kind of inspired by how terry pratchett did the Glass Clock thing, with the history monks having to stitch time back together. but in this case it's having to stitch the universe back together, and most of it was ruined, and it had to procedurally generate a new Good Enough past)

 

Something something hopes and dreams making things real

 

i wasn't consciously thinking about that but now i'm thinking of the monsters' hopes and dreams only making the surface world start to actually properly exist just before Frisk falls in and the monsters etc being able to influence how that history retroactively fills in

they don't even realize they're doing it. they're just being optimistic and it just...happens


i wonder if they'd ever know


(also i have some headcanons involving what happened to Gaster and why we can name Chara - tl;dr gaster accidentally put himself into the realm outside existence and partially RetGoned himself, dragging Chara into it as well, by fucking with Alphys' Dimensional Box invention. this happened in Waterfall and it punched a hole in Waterfall and messed up the Underground's geography and geology. also, Chara's soul is part of the CORE and they needed live, or possibly died-of-old-age, human souls to break the barrier not dead ones and that's why Azzy had to release them as part of breaking the barrier, instead of breaking the barrier and then releasing them)

 

so with souls coming up even more in the most recent chapter of deltarune, I think back to this theory:
https://starlightshore.tumblr.com/post/190640759077/red-souls-arent-determination-souls
https://starlightshore.tumblr.com/p.../undertale-theory-red-souls-are-unnatural-its

Not sure if it's 'real' after all we're all just theorizing, but it is interesting to think about, esp re: the flowers in Asgore's shop

 

Not sure if you've seen this fic? Saw it the other day, and it's not the same exact kind of meta theorizing, but I see some similarities.

 

I hadn't seen that fic before, no!

I was actually inspired a little bit by an old My Little Pony fic where Voltaire (the historical figure) is there and someone starts retconning history with a magic pencil, including trying to ret-gone Celestia. She manages to protect herself and a few other people and there's a scene where a lot of people get together and all have tiny bits and pieces of memory that didn't get ripple-effected, and can work together in a large group to all recall.

https://www.fimfiction.net/story/39157/The-Best-of-All-Possible-Worlds <- that fic

 

incidentally that thing with Gaster accidentally partially Ret Goning Chara - whose soul is too Determined to be fully erased - is in that theory why it takes a whole bunch of monsters to tell the story of the First Fallen to you, why the royal memorial statue got chucked out (it had Asriel carrying Chara. then the Chara representation abruptly got all cracked and everyone trying to figure out what it looked like got headaches, found themselves thinking in circles or unable to look straight at it, or had their DT levels drop sometimes to dangerously low levels), and why asgore doesnt mention chara or even consciously seem to fully remember they exist, as well as why you can Name the Fallen Human (their name got erased so you're filling in a name-shaped hole in reality)

 

With this theory, how is it that Flowey/Asriel can fairly easily mention them w/o signs of headache? Soulessness bypasses it?

(I am assuming the alarm clock content isn't being considered canon for the purpose of this)

 

i was thinking that DT, being the essence of persistence, offers resistance to the effect! it does have a bit of a somebody-else's-problem style effect where people are relatively prone to just dropping it or not thinking about it.
e.g. if frisk started talking to asgore about it, he'd probably briefly remember bits and pieces and be extremely upset alongside the direct negative effects...and then a few minutes later would have forgotten about it and brush off the effects as probably unimportant and then just, not circle back to topics like that on his own again

however! if someone's got a really high DT level, like flowey and frisk, they can just bull through the negative effects - they have ripple effect proof memory anyways, pushing through this isn't much different! it probably would have taken a little bit of effort at first, just enough to be noticable, to think about the topic. but given the situations they were in, that wouldn't be suspicious at all.

(also - the reason why chara's able to be conscious and coherent is latching onto frisk's DT. they'd have been completely erased like gaster if they didn't have a high DT level of their own)

 

I hadn't thought of it like that before, but I do think Gaster is wrapped up in/effected Chara so definitely interesting...

 

To branch off this theory, makes sense then that Frisk can encounter the various Goner characters.

I'm curious how the amalgamates can tie in. Memoryhead already seemed suspicious, with their lack of clear ties to anyone in UT, and that "bad memory" thing is even moreso.... and Chara (ala Narrator-Chara) seems unusually talkative in the lab, what with the "jokes" in the flavor text in Mrs. Snowdrake's encounter.

I would say there's likely a threshold before it's enough to will themselves into remembering - Undyne only demonstrates as much deja vu as the rest of the main cast, even with her ability to stave off death a little longer than any other monster seen.

 

Video contains spoilers (its funny)

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

I think its super fucking funny Kris doesn't seem to like Ralsei all that much
Chapter 2 made Kris's feelings a lot more obvious which is great [adds to the horror of their situation as well]

 

Neat videos where a youtuber takes a look at unused assets in deltarune chapter 2

Spoiler

 

Dang, that last one tho

 

Spoiler: Weird route

 

Spoiler: 'Weird' route

Just came across an animation of the big diverging scene, the last chance to stop.

Spoiler

I love a few of the things done here. The shots away from Kris's face to another set of lips, the addition of voice only for those words, the reflection of the screen in eyes.... The way it lingers on the use of Snowgrave, with the shot of Berdly's confusion & concern, the flash to their kid sprites...