Undertale - Pet dogs and date a skeleton!

And I'm sure Alphys would actually be super into that, bc she's the one who BROUGHT back Asriel as an emotionally numb, miserable flower, so I'm pretty sure she wants to try to fix that.

 

I always thought that Frisk would just wait 80-90 years and then go give Flowey their soul as they die. It's the simplest solution, but possibly Frisk wouldn't be satisfied with it because it would mean they wouldn't get to be togetherfriends... but if they couldn't do anything else, Frisk would at least do that.

Of course, this is assuming that you the player don't come in and turn everything over first :P

 

I don't think Frisk giving Flowey their soul would help him or anyone else.

We saw Flowey with SIX human souls, and all it did was turn him into a creepyass Madoka Witch, who was still incapable of love, hope or compassion. It took six human souls PLUS the whole Underworld's worth of monster souls (- Napstablook) to get Asriel back, and even then we saw that was only temporary. Flowey + Frisk's soul would probably just be Flowey with a powerup, particularly given how it's implied it was the monster souls (made of love, hope and compassion) not the human souls that let him become himself again.

And really... Why should Frisk feel obligated to do so? Sure, Pacifrisk seems to be a pretty decent and selfless person, and Asriel unquestionably didn't deserve any of the shit he got given. But at the same time, Flowey himself begs the player to let Frisk live their life and be happy. Asriel himself says that in spite of everything, he's glad he did what he did, because ultimately it led to the monsters being freed and the war not starting. And Toby himself said that we've already seen the best possible ending, which sadly came at the expense of the goat kid who died god knows how many years ago.

That, and it's also entirely possible for the player to make their Frisk hostile towards Asriel anyway. Picking [Do not forgive] and [Do not comfort him] are valid options, though I didn't pick them cause, well... who would?

 

Yeah, I don't necessarily think jamming souls into Flowey is going to do much. I think either Flowey needs to figure out a way to pass on for good or something, but I don't think he can go back to who he was all those years ago, and that's not a realistic goal or expectation?

 

I also want to point out that by "save Flowey" I don't necessarily mean "Go back to being Asriel and exactly the same". More I just want that being with its consciousness to be satisfied and happy in some fashion. It's not like self is real anyway. Just as clarification.

 

Oh, no, I know that's what you meant. I just think like... okay, it's not quite clear what soul is in Undertale and how it relates to afterlife. Even Flowey doesn't know. But no matter if there's an afterlife or not, I think it's... made pretty clear that being forcefully bound to the world of the living after dying is a big part of what fucking up Flowey? So I'm not convinced the solution is 'figure out a way to allow him to hang around even more, but happier', as opposed to 'ease him into moving on even though he's terrified of that and the unknown that awaits him'.

 

Oh no I didn't mean that you didn't understand? I just wanted to clarify things. Just so everything is clear to everyone. Which might not be needed but I worry about not being understood on this front at times since I'm kind of. Out there with how I view things?

 

I dunno, is it death that scares him so much? I mean, he's been there before, and he tried to kill himself once when he realized he couldn't feel positive emotions anymore. Sure, he gets really upset in the Geno route when he realizes the PC is going to kill him, but I interpreted that as more him being upset about the horror of being killed by the only person he was really able to even pretend to love anymore rather than just the horror of dying.

And he seems weirdly determined to have Pacifrisk kill him, too, though considering he just comes back like a bad smell in the carpet if you do I guess it doesn't mean as much.

 

Well, he states in the Genocide route that he tried to kill himself after helping everyone when he first revived, and then he realized he didn't know what would happen to him without a soul, and that motivated him to reset, and that this happened a few times before he degenerated into just fucking people over.

So, uh, pretty strong fear of the unknown there, which is fairly reasonable.

 

Huh, I thought that it wasn't that the monster souls unlocked his ability to feel compassion, but rather that he was so in the habit of being cruel and vindictive and bitter as Flowey that he couldn't snap out of it immediately even once he had a soul again. And it probably would have taken him even longer to come back to himself if Frisk hadn't been there [SAVE]ing him.

I think they key for him is that Flowey is made of Asriel, and Asriel wasn't naturally inclined to be cruel. And he spent a while after he woke up as a flower trying to act like he did as a monster, befriending people, fixing their problems - but he was doing it by memory, and after a while he forgot why, and started acting on the few emotions that were left to him instead. When you go to reset after getting the pacifist ending, you can see that Flowey is acting a lot more like Asriel than like the Flowey you first meet when you fall down - he seems to feel compassion, he's asking you to let him keep living in isolation, sacrificing his own happiness for the sake of everyone else. I'm guessing he's planning to try and die for real before he forgets why he cares again :( I guess that is the best possible ending, really - he died a long time ago, and by rights he should have moved on then, instead of lingering around as an empty shell. It's still pretty sad though.

I guess it's true that not every version of Frisk would give up their soul for him. I was thinking of the one who forgave and comforted him because, yeah, who wouldn't? And for that Frisk, I mean, if they weren't using their soul anymore, why not give it to someone who needs one? Kind of like being an organ donor. And it's possible that even a Frisk who didn't forgive him would do the same for the sake of Toriel, who they do care for.

 

He's afraid of dying.

"But as I left this mortal coil...I started to feel apprehensive. If you don't have a SOUL what happens when you...? Something primal started to burn inside me. 'No,' I thought, 'I don't want to die!' ... Then I woke up."

His primal fear of death without a soul seems to be the initial spark that gave him the ability to save and load.

 

Dialogue quoted coming from his story time during the Genocide route. It happens in the corridor between New Home and the throne.

 

Who says they don't need their soul anymore? We have NO IDEA what souls do for a person after death.

 

Like, even just going by what we see in the game, the game strongly implies souls aren't just free loot powerups after death or whatever. Chara's soul has enough personality that they can take over Asriel's body, and the human souls act on their own and with distinct personalities.

 

Spoiler: Why are we no longer putting this stuff behind spoiler tags? I'm keeping it up.

I see the point that sticking a soul in Flowey to get Asriel back isn't necessarily a happy end. I acknowledge it. It makes me sad, but yeah, one very reasonable take on it all is that Flowey needs to get past his fear of death and determination to live and... die peacefully.



But there is an in-universe difference between stealing a human's soul vs willingly giving a soul. That was the start of a lot of things, after all! The Asriel body that carried Chara's body out to the village was both of their minds having some control.

Compare that to neutral endboss Flowey, who steals the six souls and playfully describes them as "wriggling" inside him with a wink. You beat him by calling out for help enough times that the human souls revolt against him and attack him, stealing back his stolen power.

I don't know for sure what a freely-given Frisk soul could do for Flowey, but it could do something.



As much as I enjoy living!Asriel fic, what I really want to see is Flowey, but with feelings again.

If he's going to be a flower for a very long time, I want a happier ending than having him exile himself to an indefinite lifespan of loneliness and fear of hurting the people he once loved. It's a good ending for the canon, bittersweet with regrets that it couldn't be better, but it's not enough for fandom wish-fulfillment. I'd like him to be able to enjoy life at least occasionally, connect with people to some degree.

*eta slight italics and a few word addition to clarify a point

 

Given how fucked up both the First Human and Flowey end up from being soulless after death the things do seem important. Giving someone your soul is just so romantic though.

BUT WE NEED TO GO DEEPER.

but not too deep or else we might be gaster 2.0.

Also this reminds me that I'm really fond of stories with incredibly pissed off Flowey living on the surface and being loved. Stubbornly. Which is what I would like to think I'd do. Just take the hell flower with me and take care of it even if it is going to bite me.

 

Yeah, true. Giving Flowey their soul wouldn't necessarily bar them from the afterlife forever, since presumably the reconstituted Asriel would also die eventually and their soul would move on then. But maybe I am thinking of souls as too much like... emotion batteries, or something. :P

 

Irritable house plant Flowey is one of my favorite post-endings. Especially if he can emotions, it's just rusty and he's full of residual anger.

 

Yesss. Irritable house plant Flowey for the win.

 

And now I'm thinking of the thing in Kingdom Hearts where a person whose heart/soul has been torn out can slowly regrow a new one if they spend enough time and energy loving and being loved. Fake it till you make it with the power of friendship, basically. What I wouldn't give for that to happen with Flowey ;_;