Undertale - Pet dogs and date a skeleton!

Yeah, exactly! Flowey's spiel there is so much about his own feelings on the matter, not a genuine condemnation of us. I was snickering the entire time I first watched a geno lp.

Using play style as a measure of morality is nonsensical. It's the same refusal/inability to differentiate between fiction and reality. And I'm plenty willing to go "lol, whatever you say chump" at peopl who watch the geno run, then judge others for playing it through. The only reason I never truly completed a geno run was that I can't beat the final boss, even with all my hax.

It's like... Flowey's not much different than us. That seems to be part of the point. The biggest difference is that he was unable to leave the game, unable to log out. I don't know why he kept resetting, trying different things with the same people instead of letting the timeline advance in different ways... but maybe he couldn't, or maybe it's more of his clinging attachment like he talks about in the true pacifist battle. But the thing of boredom+everything is predictable+they aren't really people==>take everything and everything apart is a train of thought that makes sense to me. Genocide run is about bringing Flowey and the world to an end, True Pacifist is about helping him reach a detached peace, and the neutral runs are about the different paths the other main characters might take. It's facets and paths of the same story. (Especially with that coy remark he makes if you try to keep playing again after true pacifist, where he talks about letting Frisk go to live their life, and addresses us by the Fallen Human's name.)

The game only has so much in it. Trying to wring every possible bit out involves breaking it. In a game where save files and reloads are story element, in a game about game structure, that just works.

 

To approach this academically I can on the one hand understand the argument that it is a little bit like reading a book, since games do not actually allow players 100% autonomous choice (yet. this is a technical limitation mostly since you cannot give a player EVERY option in a programmed interface, even witht he most advanced physics engine there is boundaries and not every solution that logically SHOULD work in the real world will in a game world simply because it is not a solution path that was programmed in. Thus player Choice is often a bit of an illusion.)
In that vein I would like to also invite people to read the introduction to Huizinga's "Homo Ludens" and observe his definitions of cheating and being a spoil sport. The genocide route is ACTUALLY somewhat giving the player the ability to be a spoilsport in a way most games do not give them: usually you can only be a spoilsport by quitting a video game. Undertale deliberately gives you a path full of actual reactions to you deliberately refusing to engage with the given premise, to the point that it has your adversaries become cheaters to punish you and try to make you at least be a spoilsport in the less harmful way. This is a fascinating study of what can be done with the concept of play, and how autonomous choice interacts with completionism culture as well as game rules.
But we must also remember that all moral judgement present here is part of the magic circle. It does not actually make you a bad person to do a genocide run. It does, arguably, make you a spoilsport in a way, but not a bad person, except inside the game, where you pretend like the characters are real.

 

Sans' whole judgement shtick is reminding you to be honest with yourself. It's not what he says that's important, it's what you genuinely believe.

 

WHAT I GENUINELY BELIEVE IS I AM PISSED ABOUT THE GENOCIDE ROUTE. Though not because I was judged, but more because I have no redemption route after it.

do not deny me my chance to be angulimala

you piece of shit tobyfox

I WANTED TO BE ANGULIMALA.

 

Angulimala being a famous serial killer and sadist in Buddhism. He eventually converted and became one of the best monks ever in the Buddha's group. He became Enlightened and was entirely redeemed. Devadatta would be another good comparison to make, really? Basically Devadatta though seemingly respectable was a huge asshole who was drug down to the lowest level of Hell after attempting to murder his cousin the Buddha. After his stay in Hell though it is held by some that he rose to a Heaven and became a Buddha himself. So achieving Enlightenment without knowing about Buddhism at all.

I was very giddy about how much the game was about forgiveness and the chance to be saved. But then it went and limited redemption and I frown on this. FROWN I SAY.

 

Spoiler: Muffet's Baked Bads

fffffffffffffffffffff if I'd had any idea this was going to happen I would not have chugged that spider cider I got back in the ruins. It's fine, I survived long enough for the "yo the human bought our shit" telegram to show up, we're cool now.

AND I FOUND TEMMIE VILLAGE. Oh my god where do even start.

...hOIVES

 

HOIIII

 

in the hopes of reviving the thread, here's a photo of my undertale group i was part of at a local con this spring

not pictured: an adorable muffet who carried around a container of chocolate chip cookies labelled as spider cookies, who gave them out to a bunch of people at the con, who wasn't part of the photo because they were cosplaying jotaro kujo that day

and a chara+flowey, who was out of cosplay that day

 

also i'm not touching anyone else because glowlamb, our frisk, hates being touched by people, and i was only standing next to her and didn't want to stress her out

i'm very socially awkward but this is not an example of it

 

I see a bunch of cuties in great costumes. :D

 

yes my friends all looked v cute

i did not though i am sorry to disappoint

 

fun fact glowlamb is also a wonderful artist and the one who drew my avatar

 

20 covers of Bonetrousle at once.

 

SWEET JESUS.

 

are there multiple gabe the dogs in the background oh my goodness

 

Spoiler: geno run spoilers

holy shit there's more

 

There is always at least one dog cover.

 

MORE MUSIC: music box covers

Spoiler

 

Spoiler: Links to comics!

Someone on Plurk just alerted me to this sadorable two part comic of Papyrus' efforts to come to terms with sparing the human.

Sad Pap realizing the conflict in what he wants and what he thought he wanted...But also the expressions. I cry