It actually wasn't a kiss scene, somehow, but I refuse to read any farther than was necessary to determine that fact.
oh just one of those erotically charged mutual mouth-breathing situations, then. your typical recreational no-contact mouth-to-mouth maneuver. the good ol smokeless shotgun
see, i'd have liked that boyardee breath detail in a somewhat funny fic involving awkward moments of realism. i live for that shit. the badly timed leg cramp during sex, and the couple getting giggles about it, that kind of thing. but if it wasn't intended to be goofy, hooboy did they miss the mark.
i would accept it maybe a few years into a zombie apocalypse survival scenario when everyone’s gotten a little unhinged. it’s entirely possible that boyardee breath would become sexually appealing under those circumstances
I am sorry to say it was in incredibly pretentious origfic about a girl murdering her twin (by smothering, so, uh, pretty sure there's no breath getting from Mouth A to Mouth B unless you're very bad at it), and since the author was immediately recognized by meme as an anti who claimed to have an emotional breakdown because people donated money to OTW and demanded people send them money instead, I doubt the ensuing incestuous vibes were intentional.
i don't know if this is a gripe or me just not being up with the way people use terminology-- do people use "non-con" to refer to things that are not even remotely sexual now? i ran across a Loki/Thanos fic with the archive warning "Rape/Non-con", and in the author's notes the author wrote "Warning for non-sexual non-consensual activities." which, had me expecting something kink-adjacent but not involving genitals. instead, it was just a prisoner being held in solitary confinement and being interrogated. no torture or anything, unless the solitude counts. i read the whole thing and got to the end like "wait, where was the non-con?" maybe i'm just defining things differently, but to me "non-con" doesn't mean "anything a character doesn't choose to do." it has to involve some more intimate violation of boundaries. but i am pretty disconnected from fandom at large these days, so maybe i'm just not on trend here?
alright, thanks. it is indeed a fanfic gripe then. :P (in hindsight, the fact that the fic was rated T should have been a tip-off, but i didn't notice that until i'd already read the whole thing.)
i've noticed annoying anti influence about the use of 'non-con' to mean what used to be 'dubcon', and 'dubcon' to mean 'some kind of power differential, possibly extremely abstract or theoretical'. noncon is Does Not Want. dubcon is Wants But Maybe Wouldn't Actually Do It If Thinking Clearly. hooking up with your landlord is neither of those things. edit: and a couple beers doesn't make it dubcon. it makes it friday night. jesus hang-gliding christ.
I understand dubcon has also historically been used for "could theoretically say no, but is in a position where doing so may have some negative side-effects," but yeah, "married couple who both drank two beers at home does not constitute dubcon" is one of YOI Badfic Friend's recurring beefs.
iirc i've also seen it used for stuff in the general area of "character a would have said yes if asked but character b didn't bother asking and doesn't know that"
W O W. Like, I'd say it's one thing if one party is severely intoxicated and the other is sober, but...if two drunk people have explicitly consensual sex, that's not dubcon?? At all?? "Possibly a bad idea" does not always equal "dubiously consensual!" #i had no idea people were actually claiming that and now i am pissed #like i wrote a sex scene between two drunk characters and it was consensual throughout #so i didn't tag the fic as dubcon #are there seriously people who want me to do that jfc
i mean it's a pretty broad category. but it doesn't encompass "your otp split a bottle of wine on their date." and "your otp had a great time on sex pollen" is dubcon, not noncon.
and i recognize that this is nuanced and antis are allergic to nuance, but whether a severely intoxicated character's consent counts depends a lot on the character. some people you just know they wouldn't be game if they had their wits about them, and some people have lowered inhibitions but only enough to do what they wanted to do anyway, and some people were gonna get some no matter what and they just happen to be also very drunk. i mean, the reason, in my Punk Yoof, the phrase "eric, i'm too drunk to fuck!" was a meme among my friend group, was because i said it so very sadly. if the object of my crush had propositioned me two vodka shots previous, i'd have been absolutely dtf even though i was entirely cargoed. if i were to write about a character with that personality having that experience, i wouldn't even mark it dubcon, because that guy came out to party and he knows what he is about. and, importantly, he is also perfectly capable of turning somebody down while drunk. being three sheets to the wind only makes it more likely he'll pick a fight in the process. what i'm saying, i suppose, is that consent is about the person consenting, not about arbitrary rules and checklists. it matters more, imo, whether the character is a people-pleaser or an ornery fuck, than it does whether they smoked a whole can of drugs.
Oh, absolutely agreed. Context is everything there, and I should've clarified as much tbh, especially given that, uh... Spoiler: vaguely tmi personal experience? I've had sex while very, very stoned before, and I initiated it. I wanted and enjoyed it every step of the way. So yeah, completely agreed.
I recognize that not everyone who wants to write fic set in Japan has had an extensive and storied shojo school romance phase, but my god does it throw me out of the fic when it’s just... American High School But In Tokyo Now. Please. Please. Just do a quick google on the number of years and the existence of entrance exams. I’m begging you.
*flashbacks to the anime-inspired dark'n'edgy origfic from the late 90s I encountered in my TVtropes days that had characters saying "Oh my kami!"*
