When the Sea Catcadas Cry

Discussion in 'Fan Town' started by LadyNighteyes, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. Petra

    Petra space case

    IIRC there's even a point where a character explicitly says that the problem is when someone is treated abusively, and then the abuse stops without reason and they're given power over others without time to heal. That's still a generalization and the character involved is not unbiased, but it captures a lot of what he's trying to portray, I think.
    • Agree x 1
  2. LadyNighteyes

    LadyNighteyes Wicked Witch of the Radiant Historia Fandom

    Yeah, that's in EP6.
    Lambdadelta to Erika:
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    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
    • Informative x 1
  3. Petra

    Petra space case

    Ah, yup. Basically about how what abuse does is prime you to expect abuse, so you can end up defending against that to an overcompensating degree. Just, you know, worded through the voice of that character.
  4. LadyNighteyes

    LadyNighteyes Wicked Witch of the Radiant Historia Fandom

    There's also some related stuff right near the end of EP4
    in the scene where Ange is getting the crap kicked out of her by Kasumi's goons, and seeing it as EVA-Beatrice urging Kasumi on,
    but I don't have immediately available screencaps of that.
  5. LadyNighteyes

    LadyNighteyes Wicked Witch of the Radiant Historia Fandom

  6. Alexand

    Alexand Rhymes with &

    ...First of all, I’m really glad you bumped this thread back up today and reminded me that it had existed, ‘cause I had 100% forgotten. And all I’ve been thinking about for the past couple of days is “I’m so hyped for Winter Comiket”, too!


    So…first of all, for context, I’m currently rereading Umineko for the first time, and I’m still at the beginning of EP5. So my memory of what happens in the rest of Chiru is pretty foggy, and I probably missed some things altogether on my first read-through. But I wonder what the new Umineko episode will expand upon…

    (I wonder if we’ll see any more Genji…or Asumu. Out of the humans alive in 1986, I feel like Genji’s the one whose heart I understand the least…like, for the other accomplices, I can understand why they do the things they do on the gameboard as “fear” or “great need for money” or “not knowing that the murders are real”, but Genji's deep loyalty is mysterious. Did we get any more insight on Genji in Chiru? If not, will we get any this time? I want to understand…why is he like that…)

    (…And we have even less information about Asumu, what with her being dead at game start. Given how much of an influence she had on the lives of Battler, Kyrie, and Rudolf, that lack of information is striking. I think any new Asumu lore at all would make me happy…)

    (...It'd be nice to get some lore on Kinzo's wife, too, even if she's not as plot-relevant. I just want a better idea of what kind of mother she was to her four children, is all.)

    Actually, there were some bonus Higurashi episodes that Ryukishi07 released after the answer arcs were complete, weren’t there? Anyone here know what those are generally like? It’d probably be easier for me to imagine what a bonus episode for Umineko might look like if I had that prior context.

    The one theory I’ve been seeing around is that this new Umineko episode is going to tie Umineko into WTC5 in some way, and that’s why they’re both being released at the same time. That would be fun! Maybe that’s why the WTC5 protagonist looks so much like the scrapped design for Virgilius-who-became-Virgilia-instead; we’re getting some form of Virgilius back, and they’ll be in both the new Umineko and in WTC5. In some form or other. As a new Voyager Witch, maybe? It might be cool if we see a new Voyager Witch in the new Umineko episode, and then WTC5 can be read as partially “the story of how that witch was born”…

    I really hope I hear something about a group ready to translate the new WTC stuff before December rolls around, though. Right now I have no idea who’s gonna do it, if anyone, and it's filling me with anxiety. Is the Witch Hunt group still around? Can they get together again for a new release? I really don't want to get spoiled on anything before I have the chance to read it myself...
  7. LadyNighteyes

    LadyNighteyes Wicked Witch of the Radiant Historia Fandom

    One popular theory that I think makes a lot of sense and has some reasonable evidence for it is that he's gay and in unrequited love with Kinzo.
    • Like x 1
  8. Alexand

    Alexand Rhymes with &

    Ah, I actually saw Genji backstory fic that was written under that assumption! Although it looks like it was abandoned by the author in the first couple of chapters, unfortunately. I didn't know that that was a popular theory, though, so I didn't think to look for evidence for it while I was reading...and maybe it's too late to start, now that I'm already at EP5, but I'll try anyway. But if you know any good posts that go into it, or that compile any screenshots or quotes or something from the canon, I'd love to read them.

    Genji being in unrequited love with Kinzo does explain a lot of that Improbably Strong Loyalty...but I'm not sure it explains everything I want to know about him. Like, what's his deal with his self-esteem? His furniture thing? His total acceptance of death? Is it guilt for aiding and enabling Kinzo through his crimes? Internalized homophobia? The bitterness of a long-held unrequited love? And his willingness to see everyone else he knows die, too, is that because he's angry about Kinzo's death being hidden? Or is he angry about the siblings ignoring Kinzo at the end of his life to vulture over his inheritance instead? But then, if he was there by Kinzo's side the entire time, then he saw how Kinzo treated his kids as they grew up, right? In that context, it shouldn't exactly be surprising that those siblings don't feel especially affectionate towards their father; it's not like he ever was to them, right? Does he have any sympathy for them, or for Kinzo's legal wife, or for Kuwadorian!Beatrice? I mean, not enough to step in and change anything, apparently, right?

    I think it's that passivity that I can't wrap my head around. Nanjo, at least, is written as a character who's willing to argue with Kinzo. But Genji really did make himself furniture... You can love someone and still try to stop them from making terrible decisions that will hurt both them and everyone around them, y'know? But it doesn't seem like Genji ever did...is guilt or internalized homophobia or unrequited love or whatever enough on its own to make someone completely forfeit their right to have their own thoughts...

    ...I mean, maybe it is. I realized as I was typing this that I don't need or necessarily want Umineko to give me a direct answer, and it might be weird for it to come out and do so in Saku. What I want...is Genji meta, from readers who are better at this kind of analysis than I am. His lack of POV scenes is pretty conspicuous, so you'd think that people would write tons of theories about him, but I haven't seen any...maybe I've been looking in the wrong places.

    (Now that I think about it, I'm not sure what I was supposed to make of Ronove's existence in the story either...)

    Also, I found a tweet by Klashikari of the Witch Hunt team about whether or not they’re gonna translate Saku + WTC5! The current answer is they're not sure yet. I’m just happy to know that they’re still in contact with one another and interested in WTC translation.
  9. Alexand

    Alexand Rhymes with &

    Witch Hunt has now announced that they will translate WTC5 when it comes out!

    They're not sure whether they'll have time to do the new episode in Umineko Saku, too, since they're prioritizing WTC5. But that's okay. I'm gonna try reading the new episode anyway...in Japanese........................while only knowing 500 kanji and some basic grammar...............but what's the worst that could happen, right?? Even if I only understand 5% of what's going on, it's okay. I'm still gonna do it.

    ...I wonder what the best way to learn how to read mystery-visual-novel-level Japanese in five months is...
    • Like x 1
  10. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    Started a reread of Umineko a few days back. Also working on a rewatch of Higurashi, but that is on pause for the moment because Satoko's arcs are too fucking real for me right now. Which begs the question of why I think Umineko would be a better idea to read and somehow easier when there is a character I call Someone Please Call CPS-chan in it. BUT YOU KNOW. DECISIONS.

    It's been like. Literal fucking years since I've read this so my memories of the plot are vague at best. It's not like Higurashi where I just regularly go through the whole thing again. Yet anyway. So far episode 1 is going as I remember it. Which is to say very fucking slowly. It's good writing and I like the setup and we need the setup but jesus christ does it move at a glacial pace. Mostly right now I am just again wonderstruck by the sound design of these games. Sound novels, indeed. The sound is crucial to the experience and heightens it in ways that can't quite be captured with just the text alone or even the text with the music on in a playlist. URGH. FUCK. JUST FUCK ME UP RYUKISHI07. MAKE ME FEEL ENDLESS FUCKING DREAD WITH CLOCK TICKING. ASGDFHSDFGHDFGHFFFFF

    In other news you get like two guesses as to who my fav is.
    • Like x 3
  11. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

  12. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    It is time for the creepy shit kid comedy hour. Hell yes.
  13. LadyNighteyes

    LadyNighteyes Wicked Witch of the Radiant Historia Fandom

    You might already remember this, but in case you don't, you might also want to be careful whenever you get to Alliance of the Golden Witch/EP4. There are a a couple scenes in the middle that are really, REALLY hard to watch in a similar way.

    I remember seeing someone on the Steam boards for the game asking if there was a way to turn the music off and my soul, like, astral-projected out of my body.
  14. Meagen Image

    Meagen Image Well-Known Member

    I choose to believe they were a huge wuss like me and were just too scared to go on without a reduction in spookiness.

    LPs 4eva 4me.
    • Like x 1
  15. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    Oh believe me I am already ready for that whole mess. Again it's been ages so my memory's fuzzy, and while this shit didn't hit hard the first time around when I was a kid it's definitely hitting hard now. So I am going to fucked up by the time we get through episode four!

    oh my god why would you turn the music off D:

    unless to reduce spook factor like meagan said. because removing the sound removes a good chunk of how the game emotionally manipulates the audience. like taking the sound out of a horror film or a sad death scene.
    • Agree x 1
  16. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    -people leave the room and i immediately begin banging on the table-

    • Agree x 1
  17. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    also real talk i legit forgot gohda even existed because, as petra put it over discord, 'he's just some guy'. and he really is. like he's a dickhead. but wow you're just...some dude who had the misfortune of being hired by the wrong family at the wrong time. like the rest of you motherfuckers are either like. directly related to this family. OR KNOW WHAT SINS YOU BEAR. or are magical doom. but gohda's just...your average everyday dickhead you meet at work.
    • Like x 1
    • Agree x 1
  18. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    also god dammit now i miss someone call cps-chan even though that's like

    the worst thing to miss given

    The Circumstances

    • Like x 1
  19. LadyNighteyes

    LadyNighteyes Wicked Witch of the Radiant Historia Fandom

    You can't prove Beatrice hasn't summoned a demon in a leotard with a half-skirt and a bolero jacket and a single weird line of lace just above the crotch whose job is to stand by invisibly and inaudibly and yell at everyone to call CPS.
    • Agree x 2
  20. Aondeug

    Aondeug Cringe Annoying Ass Female Lobster

    You know what. That's a good point.

    Also I have decided that the current waifu halls will consist of: Beato and Someone Call CPS-chan.

    The one is a questionable choice given my life's history but honestly that's probably why she's there at all.
    • Like x 1
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