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NSFW RP: consent, minors, and other boundaries

Discussion in 'That's So Meta!' started by seebs, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    So we get occasional complaints about things that involve NSFW content in RP threads, especially when minors were participating in the RP, or when it's a shift in tone and people are uncomfortable with it.

    I think we need to talk about this, and how to deal.

    The obvious answer would be to make a subforum for NSFW, and tell people to keep NSFW content out of other threads.

    The minor thing is harder to deal with, because you don't necessarily know whether or not someone's a minor.

    I don't have a definite idea of what we should do, but I think it's probably a good idea to do something.

    [EDIT: thread created in It's Galley's Turn, but moved to That's So Meta, so the RPers will see it.]
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  2. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Another option I've been considering is a Thread Tag for NSFW threads. I think I'd slightly prefer the subforum thing just to make it easier for people to avoid accidentally clicking through to something they didn't mean to.
     
  3. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I think that an NSFW tag would be useful in the sub-subforums like boat trolls even if an NSFW specific subforum were made. We don't need NSFW sub-sub-subforum for every single thing. (Unless their players want that?)
     
    • Like x 1
  4. rigorist

    rigorist On the beach

    I'm not clear about what the scope of the problem is.
     
  5. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    My workshopping thoughts on some things, which I'd like rp forum goer feedback on:
    • Please keep all nsfw in the (hypothetical) nsfw subforum/use the (hypothetical) tag, and do not initiate nsfw content in sfw threads.
    • Do not engage underage forum users in simulated sex acts, even fade to black.
    • Try to be mindful of consent issues and comfort levels in all situations, both IC and OOC.
    • If a thread needs moved from one section to another please use the report button to get a mod's attention.
    Those would be my suggestions for some very basic guidelines, and I'm curious what people think.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
    • Agree x 4
  6. KingStarscream

    KingStarscream watch_dogs walking advertisement

    It'd be useful* to have for the DT threads, though we've already got those labeled mostly. But if there was a full NSFW sub-sub forum, I'd request DT be moved in its entirety while still contained in its own sub-sub(sub?) forum because we like having those all together in one spot.

    edit: *useful to have the tag, that is.
     
    • Agree x 2
    • Like x 1
  7. seebs

    seebs Benevolent Dictator

    Honestly, I'm not entirely either, because people don't always report or mention stuff.

    One of my concerns is that people may feel like it'd be inappropriate or unpopular to complain about something they're uncomfortable with, partially because we have such a high density of abuse survivors. So I don't know how much of a problem there is, and it's not as though I can consistently read all the RP threads to keep an eye on it.
     
  8. Pheelog

    Pheelog The Phee-Phee Police

    Personally, I'm of the opinion that a subforum would be a good addition, and a general statement of etiquette re: spoilering the nsfw parts anyways because of various squicks, YKINK, and the potential disinterest of reading other people's NSFW content in, say, a larger RP venue such as the rave.

    However, speaking of the rave, this does bring to mind a few [x] threads [x] regarding a past issue with it. If nothing else, a good starting point for where people stand (if even in regard to the one venue).
     
    • Like x 1
  9. rigorist

    rigorist On the beach

    Suggestion: If folks who see a problem with a post--even if it's old--could report it, mods could see what's going on. Bonus, you don't have to "out" yourself in this thread.
     
    • Agree x 2
  10. IvyLB

    IvyLB Hardcore Vigilante Gay Chicken Facilitator

    The Rave is 100% free of actual nsfw-rp anyways as we are aiming for PG-13 as is (excepting cuss-words and violence though most of the latter is being spoilered for courtesy). which it says in the first post of the current iteration of the rave. And which was the result of said threads you linked. If there is any problem with the rave as it currently is I am not aware of it at all?
    This sounds like a good idea, except I have no idea how workable this is. for starters it would 100% require the cooperation of the involved minors?
    And also I would like to know why you even rule out fades to black, just out of curiosity, bc I always perceived those as a way to basically go 'These characters hooked up without anyone involved actually having to play anything for a variety of reasons ranging from 'don't want to', over 'no spoons' to 'one or more of the people involved is a minor''
     
    • Agree x 3
    • Like x 1
  11. aspectDestroyed

    aspectDestroyed Hal | Actual Robot

    Agree with last statement from Ivy. It's hella common in PG-13 settings, to the point it's used in media.
     
    • Agree x 4
  12. Pheelog

    Pheelog The Phee-Phee Police

    No present issues from me, mostly was using it as an example of a very large scale venue where, speaking from experience, I don't particularly care about the majority of other people's posts. If there were a NSFW RP with similar scale, and posts weren't spoilered because they're vanilla, I'd likely not participate as often due to not wanting to read through a ton of smut as I wait for a response or something to respond to.

    But the two threads are still useful for past data, even if you strip the ties and connections to the rave.
     
    • Like x 1
  13. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    I understand this perspective, I think I was looking at it a bit differently.

    I know that fade to black sex is pg-13 in media, but with a pg-13 movie the creator isn't underage. And if there's a fade-to-black scene with a young actor that's probably not going to be a pg-13 movie anymore.

    Like, it's the difference between "oh, those two had sex there" and "oh, we had sex there, my character and theirs."

    I dunno how important that distinction is, but it felt significant to me.

    (Offline for a while, thank you for your input, it was valuable.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
    • Agree x 3
    • Useful x 1
  14. Codeless

    Codeless Cheshire Cat

    I personally would prefer a NSFW tag as opposed to yet another subforum, agree with PR on moving DT in its entirely if subforum.

    Beldaran, I see where you´re coming from but honestly I think that errs too far on the side of restriction. Note, if a minor Rper is not confortable even with fade to blacks, that is one hundred percent ok, but I don´t feel comfortable making it a hard and fast rule that they are essentially not allowed to write characters who have sex ever. Which is what this comes down to.

    Also player =/= character. A fade to black in my eyes does NOT translate to "we had unmentioned sex here" it´s translates to "These fictional characters had sex here, but we´re not actually gonna write that"
    ETA for clarity: I just don´t agree with your premise that a fade to black is the same level of simulated sex as writing the scene.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
    • Agree x 5
  15. sirsparklepants

    sirsparklepants *cries in sports*

    Yeah, I'm curious about the logistics of no fade to black as well. As it is, I know all the people that I rp with regularly outside the rave are above 18, but making even a no fade to black with minors rule would involve outing of RP subs, which some people are reluctant to do. As it is, I see fade to black as a way to imply sex happened without any details needing to happen. Obviously if someone, minor or not, is uncomfortable with the implication that their character had sex, that's a different issue entirely to be worked out OOC. I'm just kind of curious what you/mods feel a no fade to black with minors would add? Is it for legal reasons? Forum policy? The comfort of the average forum-goer? To protect people who may be uncomfortable putting up boundaries? None of these are bad reasons, I just think that whichever reason it is may influence the approach you want to take.

    As it is, iirc it's forum policy to mark threads with explicit content that's not just sex ed or abuse processing as 18+ anyway. I can't speak for other RPs, but DT at least asks the ages of other players who want to join (off forum, but it did happen) since we're an 18+ space. I think the rest of the guidelines are good and things I've seen most people try to follow, I'm just wondering about logistics of the minor thing, because like @IvyLB said, it would require 100% cooperation from the minors on-forum, and it would have to be a policy easily found for people just getting into RP here.
     
    • Like x 3
  16. Lissa Lysik'an

    Lissa Lysik'an Dragon-loving Faerie

    "fade to black" is a standard thing FOR THE PURPOSE of making stuff PG-13. I think someone is getting into purity culture to say it should not be used that way.
     
    • Agree x 4
  17. keltka

    keltka the green and brown one

    I think it would be a good idea to have measures in place regardless? In most forums that have RPs I've seen, there are strict divisions between the SFW and NSFW—I don't think the idea is "POLICE ALL PEOPLE WHO MIGHT INTERACT" so much as "this thing feels unsafe and UNCOMFORTABLY close to NSFW With Minors, can we have boundaries on it?" Legally, adults should not be engaging in any sex-related things with minors including any foreplay, and rp is included in that.

    Like, yes, people do lie about their age to get into things, but I think the policy changes suggested lean towards...trying to balance that with, like @sirsparklepants said, legal reasons, comfort of average forum-goer, and people who may be uncomfortable putting up boundaries.

    I know that I personally have had some trouble getting into the RP scene on the forum—it's kind of intimidating jumping into things that have a TON of backstory built up, and some of the ones that are more free-form feel too fast paced, or a little...iffy on respecting boundaries.

    EDIT: I really don't think it's about purity culture here, I think it's about things intended to be PG-13 that ended up getting pushed way into "this is fucking skeevy" territory. Fade to black is a standard thing for the purpose of making stuff PG-13 when minors are involved passively, consumption of media and active participation in it are definitely different.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
    • Agree x 2
  18. Chiomi

    Chiomi Master of Disaster

    I haven't actually looked around much at all in the RP forum, but throwing in an additional plea to please use the report button.

    Reasons to hit Report:
    • a thing needs to be moved
    • a thing needs mod attention
    • you were made uncomfortable and want to make sure someone sees it
    • cute pets
    • unbearably bad puns
    • a thing needs mod attention
      • for any reason. seriously.
      • the report feature makes it easy for us to all see it and react quickly if necessary
      • also we all see it and can discuss stuff
      • it's rad
     
    • Agree x 4
    • Winner x 2
  19. keltka

    keltka the green and brown one

    chiomi don't tempt me I have a picture of a really fat cat drinking from a toilet
     
    • Winner x 5
  20. Beldaran

    Beldaran 70% abuse and 30% ramen

    rEPORTED :O

    SHOW THE VAST CAT.
     
    • Agree x 8
    • Like x 1
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