they are websites. stormfront breitbart (i'm linking the wikipedia pages about them, not the actual sites)
Also I'd like to address this: Do they... ever think that maybe some of the people they mock maybe have eating disorders of their own? Or does "eating their fee-fees" not count? Or are eating disorders just generally mockable in and of themselves? Sorry, doesn't look like you're ever going to sell me on 'fatlogic'.
So I had never heard of fatlogic until today but I've met a lot of people who subscribed to similar ideas and I wouldn't take their advice on ANYTHING medical. Tried to have a discussion with a person like this once, and she came back at me with something so totally ignorant (in the sense of 'she apparently had no idea how science (as a broad field) works AT ALL') that I was immediately like 'oh... I'd have to explain basic biology to you in order for us to make headway.' I noped out of there cause I do not have the time. This is a scientific study that focuses on gastric bypass, but what I'm focusing on is the intro. basically, to summarize, ghrelin is a chemical that stimulates appetite. It increases sharply in people who have lost weight. People who have lost weight are therefore driven to eat more. This study explains that even one year after weight loss, the hormones that regulate appetite don't return to normal. Rather, they remain at an increased level. So even after a year, your appetite is still strongly increased. And bear in mind, that's something you deal with all day every day. You're not just a little hungry some mornings - your hunger is going to be an issue throughout the entire day, which is fucking exhausting. A lot of the terminology might be confusing if you're not used to it, but the abstract sums it all up pretty nicely. This overviews the fact that while long-term weight loss is possible, a person must remain on a low-fat low-calorie diet and continue to do moderate-to-intense exercise for an hour every day. So in other words, to maintain weight loss, you'll have to live like you're dieting indefinitely. If you hated dieting and missed eating your favorite foods, well, too bad, you're stuck like that. This study also touches on the fact that certain people have higher levels of cognitive restraint than others. This isn't necessarily a skill you learn, it's something you have or don't have. Lower levels of depression are a good indicator of keeping weight off. But depression is, for most people, a chronic illness, so it's not something you can just will away for the sake of weight loss. And no, losing weight doesn't automatically make you stop being depressed. I have to sleep I need to wake up early but there are plenty more sources you can look up on Google scholar. And I say Google scholar because scientific studies are the best thing to look at when you're examining human biology.
Wow, okay, so they do ban hamplanet as of recently, but only when used in a "dehumanizing manner" So basically you're allowed to say "Haha my coworkers are all fat and are going to die of heart attacks" but you can't say "My fatass coworkers are going to die of heart attacks" Very progressive
i really think that like, unless you specifically have an eating disorder/food addiction, you shouldnt talk derisively of those who do, and i really dont think people who dont experience that should get to lead conversations based on these subjects! that said as well? people online, especially bigots, seem to think their very uninformed and dehumanizing opinions are like, Word of God. everyone thinks theyre like, an expert online these days. these ppl think a quick reddit search and an echo chamber essentially gives you a doctorate & makes their opinion more valid than actual research studies. that said? making fun of fat people isnt going to make them want to be thinner. take it from me? it makes us hate ourselves. being called a hamplanet doesnt uh, inspire me to lose weight for nerdbros online who think theyre everyones GI specialist. its downright cruel. it doesnt help anyone, it just makes them feel superior and gives them an excuse to hurt people.
Oh wow, truly vile stuff, even recently. Mocking the idea of wanting body diversity in art/media as "glorifying obesity" and going all "Wow why would you want MORE unattractive people" Fuck that reddit, for real.
as well @Greallan , i'm not going to be overly bitter but uh, everything i said in this reply effectively dismantled everything fatlogic is trying to prove about weight = health so. make of that what you will
Even in the cases where weight loss is recommended it's still... not like they would like. I have a specific medical need to lose weight - I have nonalcoholic steatohepatitis stage 1 and the only way in my case to lower fat liver is to lower overall fat - my recommended weigtloss is only 10% of my starting weight. Which, at 88kg, would mean that I would have to stay at 80kg. Still in the overweight BMI and thus an horrible sin for these douchebags
I have a thyroid disorder. This is offensive. You know what you do when you find out you have a lifelong health condition that you can treat but can’t cure? You grieve, then you work on acceptance. That includes accepting the ways in which you are actually helpless. A failing internal organ does not care how much you believe in yourself. Thyroid hormone controls metabolism. This rather tends to have an effect on weight. If your levels are low it means that your energy levels are probably very low. If you somehow manage to unwisely invest enough of your severely limited energy in a vigorous exercise routine, you’re also a lot more likely to injure yourself. And you’ll probably heal slowly. Hypothyroidism is treatable, but it can be a long and difficult process getting the hormone replacement levels right. Sometimes the necessary dosage changes over time. Some people are just not going to be able to stay totally symptom free. They deserve to accept the limitations of their bodies and medical science, make peace with that helplessness, and get on with their lives. Telling people with an illness to refuse to accept their limitations because they need to try harder to conform to societal beauty standards suggests some extremely baffling priorities.
Hi, I have PCOS and multiple doctors have told me that a symptom of PCOS is "difficulty losing weight and keeping it off." Those same doctors tell me I need to lose weight in order to treat it, but that's fucked up. Losing weight isn't impossible, but it's really fucking hard. I've been eating a lot less than I used to and I'm still constantly gaining weight. It makes you want to give up and just enjoy what you eat. This is false. When you're starving yourself, your body goes into starvation mode and tries to convert as much of your food to fat as possible, because it thinks that you're always going to be starving, so you need the extra. That's why you gain a lot of weight back if you stop a diet that involves starving yourself. You actually should eat 300-400 calorie meals 3-4 times a day (smaller meals more often) because it keeps your metabolism going. That's stuff I've learned from my dad, who's a physical trainer, and a Strong Man competitor (who have to have very specific diets for training). If someone with a degree told me otherwise, then sure, but I trust his research way more than randos on the internet.
Spoiler: on second thought, popping this under spoiler. Personal Story re: disordered eating, pls be careful. When I tried to tell a psych and a doctor that I was having issues with food, specifically "I feel guilty for eating, I restrict dangerous amounts, I get number obsessed, and the fact I'm losing Zero weight and still being told to drop it when I can't physically MOVE to help it makes me want to die" I was ignored, judged on my outward fat appearance, and had "Binge Eater" written on my medical record. I also had unruly patient and several other scathing things added when I refused to see that particular psych anymore. I got a new doctor years later when I finally had insurance again. This doctor listened to me, got my whole story, and got all my blood work. She's working on putting me back together and giving me a life again. Not. Once. Has this woman told me to lose weight. Not a single utterance of it. My health problems are 100% not related to my weight and my cholesterol and all that other fun shit is PERFECT, but my weight may be related to my health problems and the complications of them make it difficult. I'd have trouble getting around even if I was skinny as a rail. I would not be well. In fact, I might even be sicker. My doctor and my new psych are disgusted that the old "help" I got made such a judgement about me when anyone listening to me and looking at me for more than ten seconds medically would understand I had disordered eating. But the fact I wasn't skinny and was saying these things didn't make sense to this other woman. She saw fat, and she saw nutritionist advice not working, and she decided I must actually be lying to everyone and be a binge eater. That fucked me up for YEARS. It STILL fucks me up. I'm struggling to accept myself and how I look, and struggling to accept my limitations because frankly there is a good chance this is just how it's gonna be. It's amazing that in 2018 there's still entire places devoted to selling the same bullshit that made me hate being alive for years but in a community circle jerk packaged like a fun time bonding over making fun of people. Makes me sick tbh.
added anecdata, but I have inherited pretty good metabolism from my mom and I eat super unhealthily no one has ever called me on it or judged me on it-I've been told to eat more, even (and now at 25 my cholesterol and blood pressure is a little iffy- which is a little bit family history and a bit more of no one ever really helping me figure out healthy food beyond "eat more, you need some fat on your bones") the concept that fat folx are unhealthy and skinny folx are somehow shining paragons of virtue is harmful to everyone
If you're undernourished, you will die from organ damage before your body gives up on trying to get fat reserves. If you're eating plenty and regularly, your body is much more likely to decide that it can afford to ditch excess fat. Counterintuitive, but apparently consistently the case. I know a bunch of people who started regaining muscle and health and mobility when they started eating more, and then started losing fat because they were healthier. I've also seen a doctor say "no, this is just a fat person being lazy" until he finally got a competent doctor who ordered a biopsy, and within a week he'd had two consecutive surgeries to remove all six of his thyroid cancers.
So, the thing with fat reserves is that they always get depleted at roughly the same metabolism-dependent rate (unless you're in ketosis, which can be really dangerous if you have some health conditions), even when you're exercising or eating less - in fact, you'll gain weight from relatively heavy exercise, and should eat more. So what does your body do when it's starving? It breaks down muscles and organs like the liver, to get at the protein and glycogen in them. Fatty cells can also get destroyed for lipids, but you know what "fatty cells" includes? Neurons. So yeah, physics are a thing, conservation of mass, etc - but the mass you'll lose from starvation isn't really gonna be fat as much as internal organs. As for eating disorders, they're really not uncommon. Especially if you include orthorexia - which isn't in the DSM, not because it's not harmful, but because it's too socially acceptable to count as a disorder, kinda like caffeine addiction. Also, I would like to clear up a few common misconceptions: Overweight people have a more active overall metabolism, barring thyroid issues. The average baseline metabolism per cell can be lower, but there's a lot more of those cells - and it turns out the more you weigh, the more muscle you need to sustain your body, and muscles take in a lot of energy. BMI has some correlation with health - it's neither Totally Legit nor Complete Bullshit. In the underweight range (under 18.5, but it used to be 20 until the diet industry complained), it's often a sign of health issues, but even above, there is correlation with general health and longevity, and the healthiest BMI according to a few studies is... The very much overweight 27. That being said, there's a major inherent flaw in its formula anyway: it relates weight to the squared, and not cubed, height - meaning if you take a person and use some kind of magic shrink ray, their BMI would spontaneously get lower despite the person's corpulence being the same. It ends up kinda evening out because tall people tend to be more "stretched out" in the first place, but it's still a problem.
Man, this is just making me think of how much I weighed when I was doing powerlifting at 15, before my joints got really bad. Spoiler: I was not thin. Spoiler two: I was ranked third in the country and held records, but who's counting?
I knew I should've addressed this before going to bed. I misspoke. Developing full-blown anorexia(and related) from dieting isn't common enough to dissuade people from reasonable efforts. A previous mention of disordered eating did include emotional eating, but that wasn't what I was talking about in this instance. I'm pretty much out on the rest of it. In fatlogic I was the intolerable fence-sitter, the discordant voice ruining their echo chamber. There's some things in this discussion that are too far into HAES corruption for me to agree with, but I think trying to argue will just make you(group) dig in your heels. Does anyone have a problem with the 1200isplenty cluster of subs? I like 1200isjerky but I think it's all in good fun- as a stress reliever alternative to telling people to shut up about their HaloTop worship.
One thing I have disagreed with them on is the chart-love. I'm not even over the 100-pound threshold that would make me morbidly obese, but my feet just can't take it. (Seriously, I was limping with a cane yesterday, not sure if I'd make it to my destination, and my fitbit logged it as vigorous exercise.) I'm 5'8" and my goal weight is in the 180 range because I don't think I'd like the aesthetics of having prominent hip-bones, and I got shit for that. It's not like being just a little bit over carries more risk than being in the chart with a bad muscle-fat ratio.
I wanna tell a story about my mom. My mom is 5'4" and somewhere in the 130-140 pound range, giving her a completely normal BMI. She looks slender. Up until about a year ago, she never really thought about what she ate. She was routinely very judgmental toward my dad and my aunt, both of whom are larger and sort of could be perceived as having related health issues if you squint. About a year ago, she had blood work done that showed she was pre-diabetic. Just like my aunt! Almost seems like weight was not the key factor there! So now she gets to learn about glycemic index and modify her diet accordingly, but weight loss is not one of the topics covered in her highly evidence-based diabetes management class. Because healthy diet and exercise does not equal weight!
